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Frank Viola | Beyond Evangelical
Official Blog of Author & Speaker Frank Viola. Digging below the surface and moving beyond the shallows in today's Christianity.
Organizational vs. Organic
George Fox, Alan Hirsch, Jon Zens & the Clergy System
We often need to define our terms instead of seeing their meaning within an old paradigm. hence the difficulty communicating with folks about the church when their paradigm is an organization or a physical edifice.
Structure is just another of these trite phrases. If you look up the meaning there are at least five listed.
1. Something made up of a number of parts that are held or put together in a particular way: hierarchical social structure.
2. The way in which parts are arranged or put together to form a whole; makeup: triangular in structure.
3. The interrelation or arrangement of parts in a complex entity: political structure; plot structure.
4. Something constructed, such as a building.
5. Biology
a. The arrangement or formation of the tissues, organs, or other parts of an organism.
b. An organ or other part of an organism.
When we speak of organics we are not talking about structure as it would be defined within the physical world but within biology or the organic world. The good part is that we need establish NO structure as we understand, for God places parts in the body as He determines. We are not speaking of some form of order but life or as the definition implies – biology.
The difference between structure in an organic church setting and a non-organic setting is the difference between bone and brick. One supports internally. The other protects externally.
It’s probably overstated, but organizationally, form follows function in an organic church as far as I can see.
When form becomes locked, then function is forced to fit the structure regardless of a change in the gifting make-up, personalities and spiritual direction of the people within a fellowship. This is what happens within Institutional churches with set polity and org charts for instance. They go looking for people who fit their “needs” instead of adjusting to fit the gift and direction of the people already there. That’s part and parcel of the whole clergy/laity stratification structure and why so many church workers are itinerate and move multiple times in their career to find the position or opportunity that they supposedly can fit.
Looking at this as someone who has studied organizational psychology, behavior and leadership, and also run on that hamster wheel for 20 years of my career before thankfully leaving it, I think that is what stands out to me that seems to be a pretty consistent measure in your materials Frank. I don’t think you state it quite that way, but for what it’s worth, that is what goes on in my head when I digest your material and the more I think and reflect upon it, the more I think it is right too.
Please feel free to correct me if I’m misunderstanding or confusing anything. I certainly don’t want to put words into your mouth.
blessings,
bart
Hi Frank. I read your book about a week after coming out of the insitution. 10 – 20 of us meet during the week and most weekends. It is however difficult to deintitutionalise ourselves. “What do we do? Should we have bible sudies? Who organises meetings? Should they be organised? Do we just talk?” We are worried about becoming like that which we left but without clear direction. While we all enjoy meeting together, we wonder how this new revelation of His church operates. It seems easy to say ‘Just let things happen’ but we all have a deep desire for more of Him.
Tony, which book of mine? I’ve written quite a few — http://www.ptmin.org/books
The answers to all your questions are found in the new book FINDING ORGANIC CHURCH. http://www.ReimaginingChurch.org for a discount.
It’s the most practical books I’ve ever written and hundreds of new organic church plants are using it. The book gives 6-8 months of practical help for any group that’s meeting outside the institutional church.
Excellent Article. I appreciate the side-by-side comparison.
Thank you for the reference to the review I wrote about The Untold Story. I have enjoyed that book as well as Pagan Christianity. My husband has read all of your books except From Eternity to Here. Each book has been a catalyst for great discussions between the two of us. Your work is very well researched and thought out. I also appreciate that you write to all levels of intellect and faith. I look forward to reading more!
Be blessed!
Great.. I look forward to hearing those.
By the way, you brought much clarity to this topic – house church vs. organic church – at the TO conference. I never thought of it that way before. I felt like a revolutionary because I was in a living room instead of the pews, but your word pretty much demolished that idea 🙂
What a great article . . . Thanks for the chart. For those of us who are visual learners, this is nice.
Thank you for giving us so much to think about. Many times I read your blog I feel I need several days to process what you are saying. (This is a compliment.) Today is no exception.
Thanks for the update to your blog and e-newsletter. It looks great! I’m about to read the recent article and am excited about it. Thanks for all you’re doing!
thanks Nicole. we appreciate the comment about the new look of the newsletter very much. I really like it myself and feel it’s a much-needed improvement.
Thanks, Frank, for the follow-up. Makes total sense. I think I’d just allow for a little more diversity (including the top-down historic episcopate of Rome, Constantinople, and classical Protestantism) when it comes to being/doing church.
Hey Chris. Yes, as I’ve stated in my books (esp. “From Eternity to Here”), I believe God uses all forms of church. He works through the Roman system as well. But I don’t think that should cause us to equate God’s blessing with His approval. Or set aside the Scriptures and go with whatever seems good to us. So to me it’s a question of “what has God revealed in His Word concerning His eternal purpose, Christ, and the church?” and to be faithful to the light that each of us have on that question. I think the Reformers (including the Radical Reformers) would agree. That’s how the map looks from my my mountain anyway.
Hey Brother Frank,
Have you or any of the brothers/sisters you have churched with ever thought of writing a book that chronicles the organic journey you all have had – the glory and the gore all spilled out on paper ?
I love reading what you write about organic church along with Bro. Milt and Jon Zens. I would love to hear more stories about it too.
-Matt
Matt, I’ve experienced organic church life in several different cities over the last 21 years. (The city you mentioned in your original post was very brief and it wasn’t the best experience I’ve had.) In March 2006, I spoke at a conference in Portland, OR where I told my story and the lessons I’ve learned. The CD series is called THE CHURCH AFTER GOD’S OWN HEART. We’re putting those on one disk as MP3s along with some other conferences. Should be ready in 2010 sometime. But you can send an email to PTMIN@aol.com and ask to be notified when its ready.
My new book FINDING ORGANIC CHURCH is comprised of what I’ve learned throughout those years in a practical way. The suggestions are things we all did in various different churches.
thanks for the all too kind words, Derek.
A fellow Bumbler with a capital B.
Frank
Hey Frank!
Thanks for the shout out. haa. Again.. I am so grateful for the countless hours of time and energy you have put into this amazing piece of literature. Your zeal for accurate ecclesiology is so refreshing and contagious. I am planning on purchasing 5 more copies to give as Christmas presents and I am starting a book club fairly soon in Seattle which is going to cover this book.
Hope all is well Frank.
Christian.
Thanks for this, Frank. It is helpful and clear. Only one real question in response: You apparently consider it axiomatic that no organizational structures will naturally flourish or be produced within the context of an organic church. How can you be so certain? Moreover, how can you be so certain that ecclesiological development is anathema, or ruled right out?
You see, your analogy of the hydrangea fails (or, actually, supports what I’m asking above) when pushed a little: the evolutionary history of the plant suggests close ties to the Loasaceae family, which is deeply related to dogwoods, tupelo, and the dovetree. And the genera from which the hydrangea family developed includes several species not normally associated with the plant. In other words, the taxonomy is much broader than we think. Why couldn’t this be the case for the church of Jesus Christ?
Thanks for posting, Chris. Nope. As I argue in great detail in “Reimagining Church,” all organisms have organization and structure. Or as I call it an “expression.” So too the ekklesia, which is a living organism. But in the ekklesia the expression follows the life and comes out of the DNA of the life. In human institutions, the source of the organization is not divine life, and (as in a business) it begins with organization.
Read “Reimagining Church” and it will give you a clearer idea on the actual conversation. The biblical arguments and Scriptural texts are supported throughout the book. I’m arguing for rooting our ecclesiology in the Word of God rather than the tradition of men.
Read all the above… Frank, thanks again for casting vision, and providing thoughtful templates for the vision. We are trying to spur on a missionary movement in the church of Corinth, MS. It is refreshing to see that people can function practically as a spiritual family without being attached to an organization. The challenge has been that these same people believe in the organization and their allegiance to it sometimes hinders them and the work at large. Any thoughts?
Bobby, thanks. Not really. It takes a revelation of the Spirit of God to see Christ as the Body just as it does to see Christ as the Head. The two are connected of course, and both are revealed by the Spirit Himself. This was the mystery … the heavenly vision … that was granted to Paul of Tarsus and comprised his gospel. He saw both Head and Body on the road to Damascus, connected and not separated.
Hey Frank,
most modern browsers should be able to open the PDF right in the browser as well.
And on a Mac, one can use the Preview app instead of Adobe for PDFs.
Just so you’re in the know…. 😉
Thanks Gordon. In the recent past, people would complain that they couldn’t read the PDFs. Hence the link to Reader. I’d be thrilled if this isn’t an issue anymore with everyone.