The letter was written in 1996. Mr. Joyner never responded.
Yesterday, I was sent an email from someone who I do not know. The email began with these words:
As I walked into church at MorningStar in Ft. Mill this morning, I saw a poster on the church door for our upcoming Harvest conference which is this week. I saw the USUAL speakers and said to myself…. “Same old faces, same old voices, where is the new breed of prophets …?”
This email stirred up a memory.
The memory was of letter I wrote to Rick Joyner (leader of MorningStar Ministries) many years ago when I was 31 years old. So I searched for it on my hard drive, and lo and behold, I found it.
What’s striking about the letter is that this person’s concern (above) was identical to one of the points I made in my letter to Rick so long ago. (See the third point.)
Rick and I have never met. I regard him as a brother in Christ, and I have no negative word to say about him (as is the case with every person who serves the Lord today, whether I agree with them or not). I don’t follow his ministry and haven’t for many years.
Note that when I wrote this letter in 1996, I hadn’t written any books and was completely unknown to anyone outside my close friends and family.
At the time, I had been out of the organized church for eight years and was experiencing my first taste of organic body life during that time. Also: none of the references in the letter are to myself. Rather, they are to others who I knew at the time (some of whom I still know today).
In addition, I have rarely written to a ministry in this way. And that’s still the case.
I still stand by the letter and hope it will challenge every ministry that holds large conferences and has fallen into tribal cliquishness — only giving a platform to the same voices year after year. This is the reason why I’m posting it all these years later.
One final point. Rick’s ministry was enormous when I wrote this letter. Today (September 27, 2010), it’s dwindled significantly. (My cousin attends his church, and it’s not nearly as large as it once was.) Right or wrong, I ascribe this decline in numbers and impact to some of the points I made in the letter, particularly point 3.
—
July 13, 1996
Dear brother Rick:
Greetings in the name of our Lord Jesus.
As I’ve worked on this letter over the past week, it has become clear to me that I must leave a great deal unsaid if I am ever going to send it at all. So, rather than keeping quiet until this is up to my quality standards, I am going to mail it to you anyway with some hesitation. I welcome requests for clarification and expansion where I have been, well, ambiguous (though that adjective is much too kind).
About a year ago, a friend subscribed me to your journal. Subsequently, I’ve taken the opportunity to read several of your books and to attend one of the conferences you host (The Heart of David, this spring).
While there are many things that I can applaud about your ministry, I have several concerns coupled with some suggestions. My chief burden can be summed up in the following points:
1. You describe your ministry thusly: “Dedicated to the promulgation of important teachings and timely prophetic messages to the church” and “attempting to promote interchange between the different streams, emphases, and denominations in the body of Christ.”
While this is a noble task, it seems to me that this has not yet become a reality. To be frank, I am afraid that your ministry is presently quite limited in its scope, and I fear that it will continue to be so.
Be as it may, I wish to inform you that the Lord has raised up quite a number of choice vessels, both in the past and the present, who have borne prophetic testimony concerning God’s thought for the present hour.
Of the past, T. Austin‑Sparks was one such brother. His writings and spoken ministry are characterized by a very clear and specific prophetic apprehension of God’s purpose for the present dispensation. I submit that any spiritual person who becomes familiar with his writings will attest that the recovery of Divine truth rose to an unscaled plateau in the ministry of this brother.
Regrettably, I do not see the depth of insight and spiritual supply that has been recovered by this brother represented in your ministry at this time. Accordingly, if we will move forward in the purpose of God, it is imperative that we receive that which the Lord has already recovered, lest we suffer loss and lose our vision. I would recommend his books Prophetic Ministry and The Work of God at the End Time.
In addition to the rich spiritual ministry deposited by Austin-Sparks, there are some who in our time are bearing the same prophetic testimony. These dear brethren are mightily gifted with prophetic insight, but are less obtrusive than the many prophets that are prominent in charismatic/third‑wave circles today.
Albeit, they, through the Spirit, are cutting deeper channels. In short, if we relegate ourselves to hearing God speak through one section of the Body of Christ, it will be to our own peril and loss.
2. You have often stressed that the apostolic ministry will be restored at the end of this age. I concur with this notion, but have several grave concerns about how you define apostolic ministry and the implications that are bound up with it.
To begin, I believe that the ministry of the apostle has been one of the most oft abused and misunderstood ministries throughout the history of the church (almost equaling that of the “pastoral” gift). Regrettably, there has been no shortage of self‑appointed apostles who have been accorded with super‑star status by the saints and have become the objects of guru‑like followings (a striking contrast to Paul’s notion of qualification to apostleship, i.e., that they are last of all).
Consequently, it has been my observation that very few believers today understand what a Biblical apostle is and would probably not recognize one if they had met one. The problem today is that true apostles hide themselves while false apostles hustle themselves, and I fear that this will continue to be the case as the age closes. Hence, it is my heart burden that those of us who discuss apostolic ministry are very clear regarding the problems that are germane to it.
Stated simply, the recognition of our need for apostolic ministry should be most open, the support for apostolic ministry should be most generous, but the declaration of apostolic calling should be most cautious. According to the New Testament, apostles are preeminently a spiritual function, not an institutional office. But that is another topic altogether, so I will leave it there.
3. In relation to the matter of apostolic restoration, I have another concern. I believe that a true recovery of apostolic ministry necessitates a true unveiling of the purpose and meaning of the local expression of the Body of Christ, i.e., the church. Put plainly, despite the truths restored during the charismatic/third‑wave movements, the prevailing paradigm regarding the way that most modern Christians “do church” is a static one that is rooted in man’s traditional ideas.
Hence, I believe that for a true apostolic recovery to take place (on a large scale) there must be a simultaneous recovery regarding God’s original thought for His church — for true apostles build the Lord’s church according to His heart and mind. The pressing question, then, is — if we are to have the new wine, then what about the new wineskin? The truth is that God has and is recovering this Biblical accent necessary for the renewal that God is after, yet many in the Body are unaware of it.
To be sure, there has emerged a vision to recover “first-century Christianity” and a thrust to duplicate “the New Testament church” within Charismatic and Latter Rain circles in this country over the last four decades. Up until the present time, however, despite the sincerity, consecrated effort, and sacrifice devoted to its implementation, the “vision” still tarries (Hab. 2:3). I believe there is good reason for this, but it has received little attention among most evangelicals today.
Accordingly, I would like to see you give more attention to the issue of God’s thought for the local church in your conferences and journals. In this connection, it seems to me that you continue to invite the same people to speak at your conferences year after year.
Consequently, I do not see a genuine fleshing out of your vision for MorningStar, i.e., that it exists for the “promulgation of important teachings and timely prophetic messages to the church” and the “promotion of interchange between the different streams, emphases, and denominations in the body of Christ.”
From my hill, the terrain looks a bit uneven. That is to say, a good number of important teachings, timely prophetic messages, and streams in the Body of Christ have not been represented by your ministry thus far while the same “stream” continues to be unduly promoted (I speak not with a critical spirit, but soberly).
I think the next conference that you are hosting in October, Wineskins For the Last Days, reflects my concern. While I was greatly encouraged to see an entire conference dedicated to the matter of “the wineskin” (I’m assuming that it will deal with New Testament church principles), I was disappointed when I learned that none of the brethren whose ministries are dedicated to this very theme would be speaking. By contrast, virtually all of the usual speakers would again be present.
In closing, I want to thank you for your time in considering these matters. Please understand that what I have said above reflects that which I believe the Lord has burdened me with for the benefit of MorningStar and yourself. The Lord forgive me if I’ve said anything amiss.
If you would like me to elaborate on any point made in this letter, feel free to contact me.
The riches of the glory of Christ in us be yours in ever‑increasing fullness.
Yours in the costly but glorious quest,
Frank
Related:
Why Christian Leaders Don’t Work Together
Rethinking the Fivefold Ministry
Bridges Revelatory Ministry Interview
Bible Translations I Use & Recommend
Did Rick or a representative of Morning Star ever reply to your letter?
Nope. No one ever did. And as you can tell from the person’s comment in the beginning, nothing ever changed in that ministry with respect to widening their tent. Perhaps the movers and shakers in other movements will take this article to heart.
If any of them do, I’ll be sure to let you all know.
Mr. Viola, I read you open letter and the subsequent responses with interest. A very good friend of mine had just sent me a PDF copy of the first chapter of your book “Pagan Christianity” which I read with great interest. I have lately been on a quest to uncover the early church and how it functioned. I began to find information on various web sites that were right there for the discovering. I never have felt comfortable with the modern evangelical setting and how they operate. They’ve always seemed to me to be more like a combination of a circus side show and automobile sales showroom. The mainline Liturgical groups left me equally cool. What I am finding excites me because it appears to fit the bible pattern instead of warping and twisting it to fit our own ideas. I’m glad to see that someone is way ahead of me and had already been there and done that. I will be acquiring your books along with others mentioned in the blog responses for further study. Thanks for having the spiritual backbone to do what you are doing.
As to these so called prophetic groups that keep popping up all over the place, they make me nervous inside. I read what they put out from time to time, but am always left with a big question mark in my mind. What did they just say?. So called prophecies are so vague and broad that nomatter what happens during the prophesied time period (usually the coming year) they can point to their prophecy and say see!. God doesn’t direct a prophet to speak like that. God is always pin-point accurate and letter specific.
I sat under two annointed prophets while living in Alaska back during the ’70-80 time period. Both of these men spoke the word of the Lord faithfully. One of them is still alive and bemoans what is occurring today. He, along with myself, believe that Gos is probably through working with and in the current institutional “church” and has begun to work elsewhere. I pray my prophet friend is still around to see and experience this “new move” we’ve been praying to see it for a long time. Since the Charismatic movement was snuffed out.
“The above comments are the sole property of the writer and not necessarily those of any sponsor”.
In Christ,
B.R. Clifton
I have a problem with the new testament church always aligning the calling of a prophet with the gift of prophesy.
The Gift of prophesy may or may not even be present in the ministry of a new testament prophet.
Prophets of the new testament are not as prophets as the old. The bible says that the last OT prophet was John.
the Gift of Prophesy can be manifested in any of the 5-fold callings of God.
I have seen a lot of the “so-called” prophets of today “prophesying” in the name of the Lord, and what I have seen is a lot of flesh and ignorance of the Word of God.
Most of what I have seen regarding the GIFT of prophesy supposedly being manifested in the office of a NT prophet, is ambiguous at best.
I have experienced the true gift of prophecy through ministries that have the gift operating in them, and what I have experienced in 25 years, and what I see through self-proclaimed prophets of today regarding this gift their is a great divide.
he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
The true gift of prophecy is the ability to expound the scriptures through the enablement of the Holy Ghost to edification, exhortation, and comfort.
What is being defined as the Gift of prophecy today is not even close.
I think that the “church” is confusing the Gift of the “Word of knowledge” with prophesy.
Please God, help us.
Frank, your letter is so prolific. I’ve seen the same thing, but not sure if I could express it as well as you do. This statement struck a chord within my heart ….
“In short, if we relegate ourselves to hearing God speak through one section of the Body of Christ, it will be to our own peril and loss.”
Far too many members in the Body of Christ are in this category. Regretfully, I camped in the same section for close to 30 years! Then in January of 2007 (after returning from a trip to Israel) the Lord spoke to my heart and told me He was going to expose me to different “streams” in the Body of Christ. I stepped out and traveled wherever I felt He was leading.
By December of that same year, it became clear that I could no longer sit and do “church” as usual. Thank God, I packed up and moved camp almost 3 years ago, and I’m back where I began in 1977 ~ falling in love with Jesus and sharing that love with others in my family and the marketplace where I have a business.
Leaving the building was easy, but letting go of the belief system is more difficult.
Discovering your articles and books have made the transition much easier.
Thank you!
My wife and I attended Morningstar in the mid 90’s. Though we loved some things there we were concerned about some things. Some were similar some not as much to yours. The conclusion, I think, that explained it best for us was that when a group places nearly all of it’s value and emphasis in one aspect, (Prophetic/Apostolic), it creates an imbalance.
Frank, I too thought your letter to Rick was very well written; firm yet gracious. However, the one question no one has asked is did Rick ever respond to your letter? And, if so, in fairness to him, would you please post his response? Thanks.
Thank you, Julio. I appreciate that since I wrote it so long ago. Though if I were to write it today, I’d say the same things but it would be more gentle.
I believe someone asked me that question, and I thought I answered it (maybe the comment didn’t get posted?).
But no, I never received a response.
Refreshing! Shouldn’t brothers and sisters always be able to comment to one another areas of concern to better equip the saints as the spirit gives utterance. Such love in this letter and honesty. Such a familiar identity with the brother that said “something is missing”. Such a hearts cry for years “something isn’t correct in all this” something IS missing”. May we all find true spiritual guidance in aiding one another in the repair and rerouting of all this man made mess. Blessings to all. Have my book list in hand and ready to order. Thanks for the tips and God Bless
Thanks Gunnar. Glad to hear this. We are all growing.
*whoa*
You wrote it. I’ve thought it, but could never acutally write it because I thought *shrug* why would he care? I stopped following his minstry (Mom used to get all of his periodicals) because…well…because.
How can huge minstires do all that? I’d have to write abook for that answer. hey. Wait, you wrote a book -a series of books about all that.
I don’t think it’s impossible for it to happen, but for it to happen the heads would have to set aside pride and have a huge revelation on who Jesus was. I remain optimistic.
Wait, you can send them JESUS MANIFESTO.
That letter was crafted very well! I love how it read! A great example of how to write something that asks some questions but still being supportive and communicating in a loving way!
As well, I have followed Morningstar some over the years, and while I lean very heavily towards your writings, I have heard and seen some things Rick says that seems he and Morningstar as well have been embracing some things differently than in the past.
Perhaps though, just not in conference speakers 🙂
I sure have benefitted from some things he has written though!
And thanks for sharing that letter, Frank!
In a perfect world, the “heads” of these so-called prophetic movements would get out of the way and get actual jobs; instead of detracting from God’s eternal purpose for His church they could contribute to the American economy. And then there’s Walgreens.
Thank you Frank for this interaction with another ministry that many of us have followed. Other posts mentioning various ministries in a noncritical way is also refreshing. While distancing myself from the machinery of institutional Christian life, I still want to have a healthy disposition to the believers there. We all have chinks in our armour. I hope others are as graceful toward mine.
I’ve been following Rick’s ministry from a distance for years and what you wrote in that letter years ago still is the case. He’s very much part of the system in my opinion so he doesn’t allow for prophetic and apostolic voices outside the system. The open include others statements look good on paper but they aren’t real yet. Maybe someday. Thanks for posting this letter after all this time. My heart resounds with all of it.
thanks for your perspectives Frank. I like you. I continue to be frustrated by experiencing “it’s not WHAT you know, but WHO you know” . . . and also, i have experienced repeatedly over the years that in so many situations it still is that “birds of a feather, flock together.”
Frank… good letter asking some very important questions. It seems that in some circles only certain people do the ministry, thus limiting the voice of the Spirit! I greatly respect Bro. Rick. However, I say a hearty “Amen” to your letter! I so fully agree with what you wrote about apostles, the least of the callings! Oh my… what a mess we’ve made of the Church!
Blessings,
Larry
Frank,
In my spirit, here is what I see you doing then and now, –I concur with you , and I see Rick Joyner’s Reality too.
I see you putting a demand upon the Voice Like many Waters of Holy Spirit, and I amen that yearning. The CONFLUENCE has to happen, and I believe NOW is the time. You are attempting to do a very righteous thing–to draw living water from a very deep well and from all the wells at that.
Over the past nine months I have read all that Rick has written, and there is a strong bent toward blessing the life of the local church. I have been really encouraged by this. Also during this time, if I am being honest, I have been frustrated by the ongoing parade of ‘usual suspects’ (not meant to be pejorative) at the MorningStar Gatherings.
Then, I take into consideration the restoration work that was more or less thrust upon Rick and MorningStar—of which they have performed a Godly task to a great result, and I count the man as busy as the one-armed paper hanger.
And! Today is a New Day…how about we ALL get going on the manifestation of both the New Wine and the New Wineskins…all of us. Thankfully, this is not at all contingent upon one guy seeing us or not seeing us.
I met RJ once for a fleeting moment. He had many handlers…I was not going for the hem of his garment, let me be clear about that. I had a gift that I was finally able to press into his hand as I marched in lock step with the handlers.
My husband said, “Were you able to get that CD to Rick Joyner?”
I responded, “I thing so, I only got to see him from behind and I passed the CD into his hand like a spy operative. I think it was him, but it could also have been Dick Cheney.”
Come on people now, love everybody, get together!
I like this letter, can’t believe you had it on your computer for all these years. that’s amazing.
your book “Finding Organic Church” really gave me a new understanding of what apostles are and do. every person associated with Morning Star should read it.
Frank, I think I see where you are aiming. I don’t see the word ‘all’ in the parts of their aim that you quote, but I admit that the statement implies a wider reach than they may achieve. However, in the first part of the quote, Morningstar only say that they are “Dedicated to the promulgation of important teachings and timely prophetic messages to the church” and I can’t see that that implies any claim of breadth at all – I would tend to read it as “… [some] important teachings and [some] timely prophetic messages…” and, frankly, how could it be otherwise? The second part of the quote – “attempting to promote interchange between the different streams, emphases, and denominations in the body of Christ.” – does claim a wider intent, but can we judge that by the content of conferences alone?
I’m not knocking your letter: It is always helpful to have brothers and sisters lovingly hold us to account and, in the end, only Rick Joyner can know if your observations are accurate. If Rick didn’t respond to your letter, then it is worth pointing out that the chances of him ever having seen it are low: Ministries like his get thousands of letters and it just isn’t possible for the leaders to read them all, so there are staff that filter them and try to take appropriate action on the leader’s behalf. I write as one such, though I don’t work for Morningstar. We do our prayerful best, but we inevitably end up sending some to the leader’s desk which should never have gone there, and not sending some which should.
Right, I’m off to find and read Michael T. Austin-Spark’s book. Thank you very much for the recommendation.
Thanks Martin. I’ve seen the wide breadth statements in his other literature as well, when I used to read it back in the day. The bill was that the ministry was a venue for promoting apostolic and prophetic messages for the hour (and promoting interchange among them). What provoked me to write the letter was that I wasn’t seeing this in either the journals or the conferences. And as the person who emailed me observed, it was “the same song, different verse” and I guess it’s still that way. But I do think the issue touches wider matters, hence the reason why I posted it so many years later.
I think you’ll find Sparks’ work on prophetic ministry to be a fresh take.
Thanks for commenting. Take a look at the archives (see link at the very top) and don’t be a stranger. 🙂
Frank,
I have listened to most of his tapes online. I will order a copy of the book today.
Lets add this to the above list for reading, to the prophetic conference scene. In my opinion a prophetic conference is incomplete without addressing the 900 pound gorilla in the christian china shop.
Why are so-called prophets not addressing the obvious wholesale departure from the present model of doing church? Why are they not addressing the obvious failure of producing equipped saints to do the work of the ministry. Why are they not addressing the obvious non-centrality of the Lordship of Jesus Christ. I say this as observation for discussion purpose not judgement.
Being a student of the prophetic for a long time, having read many a prophetic tome, and attended prophetic conferences. I am always left wanting. I am left with a sense that, boy we are really missing something here?
If I could recommend to these great conference organizers my top three recent prophetic writings that has fundamentally changed my world view, direction, emphasis, and produced a personal paradigm shift in my thinking they would be as follows. Not in order of preference but in order I read them.
1) “Revolution” by George Barna.
2) “Pagan Christianity?” by Frank Viola and George Barna.
3) “Reimagining Church” by Frank Viola.
There are a few others, but on the recent fresh scene these three are game changers for the Ekklesia presently. Propheticaly speaking!
Prophetic conferences and books usually turn into a predictive thing concerning the Middle-East, Israel, Arab, WWIII, Heaven glory in the sky, how the victorious church is going to beat up the bad guys thingy. That is all fine and good but I am left wanting. It is normally vague and distant.
The above three are specific, directional, relevant for now, includes me, is before the fact, is edifying, builds up, destroys strongholds, exposes errant mens doctrines.
That is what I would recommend.
Thanks Michael. T. Austin-Sparks’ book PROPHETIC MINISTRY is the best on the subject, bar none. Every Christian who is interested in prophetic ministry should own a copy. Here’s the link:
Prophetic Ministry
Great letter. I really like the spirit behind it. Lots of grace.
Nathan: It is true that we are in Him, but the ministry of God’s Word is what raises up the ekklesia that you’re talking about. So the unveiling of Christ and the “hearing” is vitally important.
Jeff: Thanks for the insightful comments and kind words. I think your practical solution is correct. That’s one of the reasons why I wrote to Rick in the first place. There were prophetic and apostolic people that I knew who weren’t being invited to his conference, even though he claimed it was a platform for such. I think some hosts may possibly hear such requests if enough people make them. Ah, but therein lies the rub.
Michael and Jeff: No, Rick never responded. Over the years I’m aware that a number of his fans have handed him my books. But I’ve never heard a word from him personally.
I got directed to this article by a friend and, whilst I can see your point, I’m a bit bemused by it. Why should a ministry, which is self-admittedly part of a ‘stream,’ be required to represent views from outside that stream? I admit that it would be cool to be able to get the widest possible range of thought from one place / ministry, but surely it is *my* responsibility as a (hopefully) mature believer to seek out a well-balanced and complete diet, rather than the task of any one ministry to provide it? I don’t always eat the same dish from the same restaurant, and I like to try places and cuisines that I haven’t tried before, or tried for a while. I *like* different streams in the church (providing they don’t go on about how their they’re the greatest and everyone else is wrong). I’m glad there is a Morningstar, and a Catch the Fire, and a Baptist Union, and a Salvation Army and a Society of St Francis etc.. The more, the merrier!
Martin: I think you missed the point of the letter. Look at point 1 carefully. The self-admission of Morningstar was to provide a platform and venue to promote interchange for ALL streams and ALL prophetic and apostolic ministries. That’s the issue. I wouldn’t have written the letter if it was a conference for only one stream. Many conferences do that and there’s nothing wrong with that in my view.
This is so cool. I’m glad you posted it because I think it demonstrates a few things. One is how a letter can be written to a ministry that doesn’t criticize or accuse, but that’s written with grace and care. Another that this letter is sort of prophetic itself. It’s been so long that you addressed these issues and they are still happening, the same way.
about your question, I think if we the body of Christ start writing to ministries that host confernces like this and ask them to invite the people we feel need to be heard that would help. Morningstar isn’t the only one, there are a lot of conferences today that invite the same speakers all the time. Let’s start writing them.
Did Rick ever respond to the letter? I’m guessing no.
I, too, wondered if Rick responded – I used to find the Journal helpful myself, in the 90’s…some of it I find too mystical now [certain visions, although I shared some of them] – as I have become very practical, [hopefully not cynical] as Love (not as a feeling) [from and to Jesus and others] has become the bigger calling.
Frank,
Lovely post! I find myself in agreement with your July ’96’ open letter to Rick Joyner at MorningStar. I have read his stuff. I agree the prophetic conferences need some fresh voice. Has he answered or responded at all?
Perhaps the problem is the people don’t have ears to hear, as well as the ones (Prophets) who are most vocal and focal continue to fill old wine skins.
The battle right now as you are well aware is establishing a nice new, flexible, supple, expandable, wineskin.
Most try to load the still fermenting new wine into a stiff, inflexible, used one.
John came calling for repentence. Jesus first word after receiving the Holy Spirit empowered for service was repent. I think a good repent is in order now.
We must turn on our heel and go in a clearly defined different direction from this old wineskin that we keep trying to put new wine into.
Someone once said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a new result.
This new wineskin allows the still fermenting wine to expand within the famial atmosphere of Pauls model of community life historically documented in the Acts, and his Letters to the various small communitys he wrote to. It was all inclusive in function and participation for all believers, it was non-hierarchical, it was not clergy dominated, it was lead by Jesus Christ. It was a daily family life, rather than a religion.
Apostles and Prophets establish that, teach that, encourage that, exemplify that.
Clearly the clergy/pastor dominated model wine skin isn’t working?
A prophet, should be able to perceive that. Actually a non-prophet should also.
I think the point of an apostle is key understanding none of the new testament aposltes were super stars or even causing any attention to themselves except they were lowley and desiring that all that they did, pointed to Christ. They like Jesus were coming to serve not to be served. For me after experiencing Organic Church life after International house of Prayer I find something so key that makes that point. That the apostles of the new testament didn’t have a stage, they didn’t have a hierarchy, but were brothers only boasting in their weekness if they boasted in anything. Though many at Ihop and other organizations have great hearts and love the Lord probably way better than me I think it’s sad that they miss this point because for me it is becoming a joy at times to enjoy the meekness of Christ and the Love that he presents us with the cross that is longsuffering instead of emotionally touching though he does both at given times. I love the fact that we don’t have to hear someone talk about him, but actually be in him and know him trully because the body and the head cannot be seperated.
I love this – thank you
“I love the fact that we don’t have to hear someone talk about him, but actually be in him and know him trully because the body and the head cannot be seperated.”
yes, that is how I have come to feel
and yet I have examined myself on it wondering if i was ‘backsliding’ and blind about it…I just don’t find the need to have sermon after sermon, or even tape/CD or online messages and rarely Christian books..
I got so chockablock with all of those in the 80’s and 90’s – it was like a ‘fix’ I felt I needed to get through each week – and while they can help us a lot, especially as younger believers, there has to come a Day when what you say, in what I quoted, becomes a reality.
That we know [in a way I don’t have complete words for that we are IN Him and live out of that for our Resource]
Those are good points that, like you, I feel are still valid today… 15 yrs later. I paid close attention to Morningstar for a number of years through the ’90’s but my interest started to wane around this time.
I too felt it was the same people who were at the conferences and who wrote in the Journals year after year. I have not followed any of them in 15 years, but recently have read portions of articles written by brothers who used to ( and may still ) contribute to Morningstar…. the stuff I read was very similar to the stuff I was reading way back then. There’s just something missing from much of it. Maybe it’s what you refer to and suggest to Rick in your letter… Solomon was correct: There’s nothing new under the sun.
Lastly: Your caution and points are probably well directed to all us… and especially if anyone is a part of something .. some “ministry” or work of the Lord…. It’s tough to keep our eyes on Jesus.
Oh me of little faith! I am having a hard time seeing church movements like Morningstar ever giving up their identity for the sake of unity. Morningstar was and is the frontrunner of the prophetic and apostolic restoration movement. They are not going to change unless it is by Holy Spirit revelation.
My thought is that with all the prophetic round tables and web lists, etc., why are we not hearing any fulfillment of the words given. They just throw them out there and leave them hanging. I have asked my friends who read these web lists about fulfillment. Their reply usually goes something like this. “I really don’t know, I’v never thought about it.” And my thought is is that they really don’t care to find out.
Just a few of my thoughts about this subject. Good question.
Thanks Darryl. The core problem I addressed in the letter is … if they are providing a venue for the apostolic & prophetic, why do they exclude so many ministries that are prophetic and apostolic? Morningstar isn’t alone in this of course. But I do find it interesting that 14 years down the recent church history pike, the situation hasn’t changed.