This post has been revised and converted into a chapter in the book, Beyond Evangelical.
To learn more about the book, click here.
Frank Viola | Beyond Evangelical
Official Blog of Author & Speaker Frank Viola. Digging below the surface and moving beyond the shallows in today's Christianity.
Beyond Evangelical: Part IV
God’s View of a Woman
Wow! Everything you are describing as “Beyond” is exactly how I have been feeling for about a year or more. God has allowed me to host a women’s Bible study and one of the really cool things is that we all attend different Bible-teaching churches, but we have never discussed doctrine. We focus on the Bible and uplifting and encouraging each other with scripture and prayer. I have believed for sometime now that we are supposed to be building a community that includes all believers. God doesn’t want His kids to fight.
* We’ve grown sick of Christians saying nasty things about their fellow brethren whom they don’t know personally on social media networks. And then justifying it in the name of God.
*We’ve looked to the right and do not wish to venture there. We’ve looked to the left and do not wish to venture there either. The direction we feel pulling our hearts is above and forward.
*We believe that both the religious right and the Christian left have vital truths to contribute. We also believe that they are both missing vital truths. We believe their focus is mainly “issues” rather than Jesus Christ.
These are theones that resonate but yet all seemed to be a concern of the heart. My thought in the now is the more I focus on these things that break my heart the less my focus is on Jesus. It seems to me that these very things that are hurting us are issues rather than Jesus Christ.
I appreciate the objections raised here. I think that this behavior is not a result of a broken paradigm but rather broken people.
I can agree with just about all of the comments, but these two seem to resonate with me the most. I love your blog and your books, there is a hidden move of God moving just below the surface, I feel the swell of it even now.
*We’ve looked to the right and do not wish to venture there. We’ve looked to the left and do not wish to venture there either. The direction we feel pulling our hearts is above and forward.
*We want the Lord. We want spiritual depth and reality. We want HIM in all of His fullness. Everything else is secondary to us, and often, we find them to be largely a distraction.
Tim I’m a young woman and many of my female friends feel the same way I do. I looked at the comments here and without counting it looks like just as many women responded as men.
Regarding these issues, it seems in my conversations with others, these issues resonate more strognly with men than with women. Is that similar to anyone else’s experience? If so, why?
This for me is very important.
*We hold to the orthodox teachings of Scripture regarding the Person of Christ, His work on the cross, the inspiration and truth of the Bible, the Triune nature of God (the Godhead), but we are weary of Christians dividing over peripheral doctrines and their own private interpretations of Scripture on non-essentials. We passionately agree with Augustine’s sentiment: “In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, in all things charity.”
“We’ve grown sick of the entertainment-driven, duty-driven, guilt-driven message that’s laced in most Christian sermons and books today. Human-induced guilt and the conviction of the Holy Spirit are two very different things.”
It’s a hard choice, but I probably have to go with this one. I call it “try-harder Christianity.” I’ve seen it hurt so many people, and I’m sick of it.
”We have grown weary of some Christians falsely branding their fellow sisters and brothers in Christ with the words ‘heretic’ and ‘apostate’ when those same believers actually uphold the orthodox creeds of the faith.”
I used to be part of the UPCI, so this pretty much resonates with me very well.
Loving the new Posts Frank, as others have already posted I also resonate with about nearly all the above. The one that truly struck me was the following.
“We are saddened that the doers, feelers, and thinkers of the body of Christ have separated and isolated themselves from one another instead of learning from each other”
I’ve witnessed far to many remove themselves after being the recipients of the finger pointing, name calling and third person accusations. I always remember one of your audio recordings where you state that each of us carries a wooden cross and sooner or later we are bound to bump into one another and give each other a splinter. Aside from loving these who have secluded themselves what can we do to encourage them back from isolation?
This is the first ever example I’ve seen that perfectly describes me and my ministry. I’m going to share this with whoever I can!
This statement reveals my heart to see the whole ekklesia of God to come to maturity and unity of the faith in Christ.This statement also reveals my own failings to keep this unity between believers I have known in the past,and because of the new progressive truths that I have recieved,when I attempted to dialogue, we both were unable to remain in unity.I am encouraged by your posts because they cause to hope for this unity.
*We’ve looked to the right and do not wish to venture there. We’ve looked to the left and do not wish to venture there either. The direction we feel pulling our hearts is above and forward.
The “left vs right” debate is not as much of an issue in my country (South Africa) as it is in the USA, but I definitely resonate with all of the rest. And I know a lot of people over here who also do, even though they have never read or heard of your books.
The one that stand out for me at the moment is “We’ve grown weary of some Christians falsely branding their fellow sisters and brothers in Christ with the words “heretic” and “apostate” when those same believers actually uphold the orthodox creeds of the faith.” I think a lot of us (me included) took the first step out of institutionalism by doing exactly this. We reacted against one “ism” (such as emotionalism) by embracing another (such as intellectualism). And so many of us went from Pentecostalism to Calvinism, and in the process added a new section to our libraries (dealing with the chaos of the Charismatics) and began fellowshipping with likeminded dissidents. But the new ism came with its own frustrations, and so pretty soon we packed up again (Adding another section to the library, containing books like Dave hunt’s What Love is This). Desiring to rid ourselves from all the confusion and wasted years we embraced activism (new section again, with names like Wallis & Campolo & a Brother Sun Sister Moon DVD). And with every new book our list of heretics and apostates grew longer (how come everyone has been missing it all along?). But you end up feeling cheated when you realise CNN and Hollywood shares your bandwagon, and then you really don’t now where to go anymore.
Ah, that is when you see that God has allowed you to experience different parts of himself, yet in isolation from one another. And when you wonder how to integrate them, he shows you that they are already perfectly integrated in Jesus Christ. And then your Christian life begins to takes off in a way that you could never have anticipated.
And then you find this blog.
Thx. for comment Tobie: Let me say something that I’ve said many times, but that bears repeating. While some of the people who subscribe to this blog belong to non-institutional forms of church, most of them (i.e., most “Beyond Evangelicals”) are part of institutional churches. They are Anglicans, Baptists, Methodists, CMA, nondenominational, seeker sensitive, mega-church, Presbyerian, etc.
Beyond Evangelicals transcend church structures, forms, and denominations. So we shouldn’t confused moving beyond evangelical with a certain kind of church form. We all put a high premium on Christian community, but the form it takes is very open.
Thanks Frank. I hear you. That may be the last step (is there such a thing?) for those of us who have gone through the process I described above: Understanding that word “transcendence” instead of getting all hung up on non-institutionalism. And thanks for your persistent and patient correction.
I resonate with about all of what you’ve written, Frank. Thanks for the post.
Thank you and AMEN! I couldn’t agree with you more. In response to many beliving and unbelieving friends, I posted the following thoughts on my FB page this week.
“It’s an election year, (you all knew that, right?) and many people who know that I love the Lord Jesus have asked me recently about the “Christian position” on various issues. This is my response: Christians are not identified by their positions on issues. Neither liberal nor conservative values are inherently Christian. Christians are defined by who they believe Jesus is. Son of God. Way, Truth and Life. Atoning Sacrifice. Risen Lord. Coming Judge and King. That’s step one. Steps two to infinity are becoming conformed to the image of Christ – laying down our lives, picking up our crosses and following him. It is an impossible path. Only Jesus walked it perfectly. The rest of us stumble along, making many mistakes along the way.”
Most if not all of those statements speak what’s in my heart, but the ones I would have to pick out as most resonating are:
* We stand for the unity of the Body of Christ. At the same time, we fiercely and passionately stand firm on our convictions regarding the absolute and unvarnished supremacy of Jesus, His indwelling life, God’s timeless purpose, and the church as a Christ-centered community.
*We want the Lord. We want spiritual depth and reality. We want HIM in all of His fullness. Everything else is secondary to us, and often, we find them to be largely a distraction.
Frank,
I’ve read several of your books and follow your blog and do agree with most of the points you make. I especially address the topic of right vs. left in an article/book chapter from the point of view of Scripture itself. It is not just a matter of our being tired of it. The issue is that Scripture itself does not present this picture of the Christian life, but instructs us in several places not to turn to the right or to the left. The balance of the ‘straight way’ is where all that is correct is, not in adding or subtracting. The article is part of a series called: “Rethinking the Issues.” It is a basic framework of understanding that has kept many of us ‘conservative’ Christians in bondage to legalism for a long time. The Scriptural truth has set me free. Thanks.
“We’ve grown weary of some Christians falsely branding their fellow sisters and brothers in Christ with the words “heretic” and “apostate” when those same believers actually uphold the orthodox creeds of the faith.”
This activity was one of the pillars of pride in the camp I came out of (reformed/calvinistic). It was so easy to pick people’s arguments apart systematically but never really listen to or hear them. The fight for the faith was less about fighting my flesh and more about fighting for our brand of the truth. The more I became interested in seeing Christ in all believers and began to see different facets of His beauty through His body, the more convicted and disgusted I was at this behavior.
“We want the Lord. We want spiritual depth and reality. We want HIM in all of His fullness. Everything else is secondary to us, and often, we find them to be largely a distraction.”
While I resonate with every sentiment above and have said them all at least a dozen times in various outlets in the last year, this one defines my constant heart cry. This is the bullseye of all my prayers with everything else built around it. This is my passion and this is why I have been compelled to move beyond evangelical…
And I am filled with joy to know that I am not alone.
I want to walk in intimacy and a depth with Jesus that is practical too as I live and interact with those around me in my day to day life, namely, those in the workforce. I want to better embrace “living in the tension of…,” without losing depth in Him, if that makes sense!
I’ve loved this series and look forward to the next part. I’m 33. What I like most about these articles is that they are positive and don’t tear others down. I think that’s what moving past or beyond evangelical means in part at least. Really inspiring and uplifting stuff.
“*We’ve grown tired of Christians trying to rope us into the liberal vs. conservative battles of the 19th and early 20th centuries.”
This statement describes me the most. It resonates partly because it’s also how we name our political parties in Canada.
It resonates because of the last face-to-face discussion my husband and I had with the then interim-pastor at the church we eventually, and recently, left.
I’m tired of this left vs right, conservative vs liberal. I’m tired of theological debates that end in a winner and a loser instead of each taking away something new and everyone being that much closer to God. I’m tired of an Us vs Them battle where we would rather draw lines in the sand and put God in a box than truly love people like Jesus did.
We want the Lord. While reading the entire “ReChurch” set of books, I kept thinking….”I have no knowledge or experience of Christ in that way. I have never seen Him lead a meeting of believers.” I, who have three years of seminary experience, several years of paid professional staff experience in a major denomination, and have been a believer since the age of 8…have NEVER been to church.
P.S. I’m 28 and my husband is 34. He’s been a pastor for 12 years and I’ve been a theology student (Bible college, then seminary, and now a Ph.D. program) for 10 years.
Until recently, I hadn’t thought much about the possibility of being a “post-evangelical.” But, it seems more and more clear to me (from your writing and others) that I am. I still use the evangelical label, but always with qualifications and caveats. Sadly, it seems this list of “but nots” gets longer with every passing week. Perhaps I will eventually get to a point where I drop evangelical from my self-description all-together.
Reflecting on your post, I personally resonate the most with the following statements:
“We’re weary of the “good ole’ boy system” that’s present in much of establishment Christian today because it ends up elevating and protecting the status quo and silencing the voices of the prophets.
“We’ve grown weary of some Christians falsely branding their fellow sisters and brothers in Christ with the words “heretic” and “apostate” when those same believers actually uphold the orthodox creeds of the faith.
“We’ve grown tired of Christians trying to rope us into the liberal vs. conservative battles of the 19th and early 20th centuries.”
These three things feel like the defining issues of my growth in (and out of?) evangelicalism. The realization of an intractable (and sinful) “good ole boy system” was the first scale to fall from my eyes, followed closely by the realization that people with whom I disagreed with on secondary matters remained faithful believers, and then the recognition that my higher-ups in evangelical education were simply reliving and replaying the “battle for the [fill in the blank with your pet fundamentalist issue of choice]” and wanted to use me as a foot-soldier. Thanks, but no thanks.
Honestly, I don’t know where I’ll end up now. My husband and I discuss feeling like “misfits” regularly. But, it is increasingly clear to me where I/we *don’t* belong. Forts and trenches are for worldly armies, not the people of God.
Which statements resonate with you the most? Well, evidently I fit the bill of a “beyond evangelical” because they all resonate with me. But, I did want to comment on one in particular:
We’ve looked to the right and do not wish to venture there. We’ve looked to the left and do not wish to venture there either. The direction we feel pulling our hearts is above and forward.
David Neff quotes Alan Jacobs in “Why Last Saturday’s Political Conclave of Evangelical Leaders Was Dangerous”
“We’re fed up with being the Republicans’ lapdogs, but don’t think we’re joining the Democratic kennel.”
We do need to feel our hearts being pulled above and forward, not into the partisan bickering of US politics, where Jesus or his values isn’t the focus on any party’s agenda.
They all resonate with me, but the bigger problem is finding a local church body that as a whole (or even fraction) would resonate with even a handful of these. I live at an epicenter of megachurches in the NW suburbs of Chicago (at least 10 megachurches or mega satelite campuses within 10 miles of my house), all essentially the same. Now my neighborhood free church is copying the model to “survive.” Too much consuming around here; so sad.
Resonates with me?
Any statement that begins with:
We’ve grown tired…
We’ve grown weary…
We’re saddened…
We’re sickened…
Yep. Anything that starts with one of those phrases sums up where I am at this moment.
Frank, my husband and I loved all your posts since you’ve been back to blogging. It was worth the wait. 🙂 I’m 30 and I agree with all of these confessions. These two I like best I think –
*We’ve looked to the right and do not wish to venture there. We’ve looked to the left and do not wish to venture there either. The direction we feel pulling our hearts is above and forward.
*We believe that both the religious right and the Christian left have vital truths to contribute. We also believe that they are both missing vital truths. We believe their focus is mainly “issues” rather than Jesus Christ.
I’m 26 and all of this speaks to where me and my friends are at. My favorites were,
*We are sickened that so many evangelical Christians are either legalists or libertines. We want Christ’s lordship and we want His liberty as well. We wish to follow Jesus without being legalistic or libertine.
*We’ve grown weary of the way that Christians routinely mistreat their fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, being quick to judge their motives, thinking the worst of them, condemning them, slandering them, gossiping about them, etc. We believe that being a Christian means treating others the same way you want to be treated (Matt. 7:12)—the “forgotten words” of Jesus. With deep remorse, we empathize with the words of Ghandi: “If it weren’t for the Christians, I’d be a Christian.”
“Human-induced guilt and the conviction of the Holy Spirit are two very different things.”
So true.
Sharing this.
Great series! I’m 27 and in ministry, and this is really helping me.
William, Frank addressed this in part 3. This isn’t about what’s right or wrong, or about labels, it’s about Christ. Jesus Manifesto helped me see this. This series is like the next step.
Agree with all, but the last few resonate most. As for my family, we have grown weary with the same, old, lifeless sermons. We believe the body has lost it’s power because it has lost its unity in Christ. And we believe the beautiful simplicity that Christ is all has been replaced with the so called “deper” things in the Christian faith. There must be more and, we know now, the more is Him.
I’m loving the series. God’s view of a woman and your interview with N.T. Wright were spot on. I’m 31 and you’ve put words to exactly how my friends and I feel. We are looking forward to “more”!
Some of the remarks made in this blog resonate with me and probably with lots of people. But I can’t help wondering if, in a few years, someone will be writing about the ‘beyond evangelicals’, or the ‘post evangelicals’ with equal criticisms. I’m guessing a lot of what is criticised, although not directly, in this post is being carried out by people wrestling with the issues that you raise, and ultimately that we’re always going to be wrestling with. I really don’t think we need a new movement, just new priorities. If people were truly evangelical then we wouldn’t need to move ‘beyond’ evangelical. Maybe that’s what needs to be addressed, rather than trying to ‘right’ wrong perceptions of evangelicalism by adding a new stream, which you may not be wishing to do, but which will no doubt happen, because it’s what humanity tends to do with any kind of new ideas. It just compounds the confusion and fragments the already fragmented Church. Just an observation, and eager for your thoughts…
I’m 29. Ditto James!
I just found your blog a few weeks ago. I’m 32 and was part of the neoReformed. This whole series resonates. I left the “systemtizers” and don’t want to become an “activist” either. Many of my friends are in the same boat and we’re reading your blog every day. Thanks for giving us direction and words to share how we feel. We are glad we aren’t alone.
*We believe that both the religious right and the Christian left have vital truths to contribute. We also believe that they are both missing vital truths. We believe their focus is mainly “issues” rather than Jesus Christ.
*We are sickened that so many evangelical Christians are either legalists or libertines. We want Christ’s lordship and we want His liberty as well. We wish to follow Jesus without being legalistic or libertine.
*We’ve grown weary of the way that Christians routinely mistreat their fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, being quick to judge their motives, thinking the worst of them, condemning them, slandering them, gossiping about them, etc. We believe that being a Christian means treating others the same way you want to be treated (Matt. 7:12)—the “forgotten words” of Jesus. With deep remorse, we empathize with the words of Ghandi: “If it weren’t for the Christians, I’d be a Christian.”
*We’ve grown tired of the shallowness that marks so much of evangelical Christianity today. The same sermons, the same principles, the same teachings, etc. We are looking for depth in the Christian life. We know there’s more to Jesus Christ, more to His church, and more to the spiritual life than what’s been promoted in establishment Christianity. There is a cry in our hearts that says, “There’s got to be more than this.”
I think its interesting that Christ called me OUT of the traditional church in order to KNOW HIM.
I echo each sentiment. But I add that I am frustrated that it isn’t enough to simply identify myself as a Christian without being asked half a dozen clarifying questions that I find irrelevant, or feeling ashamed, not of Christ, but that I may be assumed to be one of those people who call themselves Christians but who stand for anything and everything offensive other than Christ Himself. A friend gave me a bumper sticker, which out of love I have not put on my car, but the sentiment is sadly too often true. It reads: “Jesus, protect me from your followers.” I do not believe that today’s image of a Christian is the kind of offense the cross is supposed to bring.
* We stand for the unity of the Body of Christ. At the same time, we fiercely and passionately stand firm on our convictions regarding the absolute and unvarnished supremacy of Jesus, His indwelling life, God’s timeless purpose, and the church as a Christ-centered community.
*We want the Lord. We want spiritual depth and reality. We want HIM in all of His fullness. Everything else is secondary to us, and often, we find them to be largely a distraction.
These are the two that resonate most with me. It seems that many have made the tertiary items their main doctrines and often seem to have made the institutional church their god. I just want a deeper relationship with God in the fullness of His triune being. All the teachings, dogmas and social works mean nothing if I have no relationship with the Father through Jesus and have no allowance for the Lordship of the Christ in my life. If I deny the Holy Spirit absolute free range in me then I deny the very cross of my Redeemer. I just want to know Him more………..
Frank, two dominant ideas resonate with me here:
1) Being labeled a “heretic” or “off the deep end” when my heart seeks to see Christ lifted up in His Body.
2) The guilt-ridden sermons/teachings which permeate so much of Christian teaching.
Both form my background and have been a source of frustration, sorrow, pain, and many personal battles of trying move in another direction.
Thanks for sharing, bro!
I would add that I am tired of hearing the truth and life spoken but not lived in experience or pursued. The next step after receiving head knowledge of Christ should not be more head knowledge. I had a pastor once tell me it was exhausting listening to me talk about all the amazing things Christ was doing in my life! We should also be brave and kind enough to each other to think and discuss outside of pastor-approved theology. I’ve probably lacked in kindness there I will admit. I would also add that living outward in the general community should not be limited to just reaching out to the people that come and walk into your church/group. Coming from an intellectual background and Calvinist based church these are what have led me to seek Christ more fully elsewhere in a community of believers.
Mike: Great point. Part II discusses this very issue.
Resonated with all, but this one most:
“We want to see the Christian right and the Christian left learn from one another as well as learn from those of us who are not part of either stream. We feel that all Christians should be open to learn from one another, for we are all parts of the Body of Christ. None of us has the lock on all truth. Each member of the Body has a portion of the riches of Christ.”
Thanks for sharing
Amen and Amen!
Quotes:
*We’ve grown tired of the shallowness that marks so much of evangelical Christianity today. The same sermons, the same principles, the same teachings, etc. We are looking for depth in the Christian life. We know there’s more to Jesus Christ, more to His church, and more to the spiritual life than what’s been promoted in establishment Christianity. There is a cry in our hearts that says, “There’s got to be more than this.”
*We abhor elitism and sectarianism. We are open to all Christians of all stripes, receiving all whom Christ has received (Rom. 15:7).
* We stand for the unity of the Body of Christ. At the same time, we fiercely and passionately stand firm on our convictions regarding the absolute and unvarnished supremacy of Jesus, His indwelling life, God’s timeless purpose, and the church as a Christ-centered community.
*We want the Lord. We want spiritual depth and reality. We want HIM in all of His fullness. Everything else is secondary to us, and often, we find them to be largely a distraction.
***
In my life I’m deeply disturbed by the shallowness of much of the evangelism that I see or was a part of. Its seemed to be focused on a stock market type agenda, numbers rule, a pastors style became cult like, “we just love pastor ______ so much he’s so good”.
The sectarian splits, and elitism within the body reeks of flesh. At the same time the desire for unity, harmony, and the profound closeness within His body is worth everything to strive for, live for, and even to die for. The answer seems to be found in the lack of spiritual depth, which points me back to the shallow nature of the main stream American church. Could it be that these words best describe what we see?
***
“I know all the things you do, that you are neither hot nor cold. I wish that you were one or the other! But since you are like lukewarm water, neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth! You say, ‘I am rich. I have everything I want. I don’t need a thing!’ And you don’t realize that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked.
Revelation 3:15~17
Quote: “We’re weary of the “good ole’ boy system” that’s present in much of establishment Christian today because it ends up elevating and protecting the status quo and silencing the voices of the prophets.”
Yep. UK too.