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Thanks Frank and to every one else who chimed in with little bits of insight! This blogpost and ensuing comments are so rich! The points brought up have changed my thinking and actions for the better (I hope!). Praise be to God for his Body helping me become a better reflection of our Lord!
Thank you!
“Intercession happens when God lays someone on my heart strongly or if they specifically ask me to pray for them.”
Not often do we know why we are praying, but He always does. Then there are those times when He will bestowed the blessing of revealing the “whys” – often years later. Oh what glory He receives when we can then share our hearts.
One thing that has helped me in this area is when someone says, “Would you pray for me?” I often respond, “Let’s pray right now” and we do – regardless of where we are or what we are doing. Though not motivated by the same prompting of the Spirit as when God puts someone on my heart, the Spirit definitely blesses it. I’ve never had anyone get offended and there have often been tears shared in these moments (even in public settings). There are times when it may feel uncomfortable, but I don’t think that being in God’s will is always cushy – most often it is just the opposite.
I think the most important thing is obedience and heeding the Spirit. There have been those times when I felt God say “not now” and have prayed privately. The focus should be on His will not our own agenda.
Thanks for the freedom, I enjoyed all the encouraging words on prayer. We all know it is Jesus who intercedes threw us so is it HIM or if its just us our prayers stop at ceiling.
I’ve read somwhere that prayer means that He gets what He wants not you what you want so it’s like His will versus your will be done. Anyway, I am a little confused what the purpose of prayer is. Since we are always in Christ and we live in Him what’s the point of praying. After all He knows all our needs. Is it because we want to acknowledge Him in all our ways? Is prayer more like a conversation and sharing with God rather than asking Him to meet our needs? I know that there is more to it than “ask and receive”. So what do we pray about?
Todor, for me, prayer (as I said earlier in a post) can also change us. It’s an amazing fact. And although what we desire, or are praying for may not always change (its aways up to God), we ourselves change in the process in many ways.
Prayer for me also is fellowship with Jesus, it’s talking and listening, as we are his children, it’s saying I am dependent on you (not on myself). Cultivating that regular fellowship time with Him is vital for our growth and victorious living. Many times we read in the scriptures that Jesus says to people, What do you want me to do for you? I believe Jesus wants us to Ask Him, to voice (or bring prayers of supplication) our thoughts and needs to him because he cares for us. I also believe prayer should come from the heart. It’s not to be a legalistic thing to do, but because you want to spend time with the Saviour of the world, who loves you.
Great post! I feel the same way … if you need prayer I will likely pray for you right then and there. That is important not just because im trying to avoid the expression but also because we need to be following Christ in the moment. Jesus seemed to be skeptical about those who made plans in the future encouraging them to focus on God’s leading in the now.
Frank this post really hit home. I didn’t realize it until I read your post but I’ve been too loose with my prayer requests, asking people to pray for me when I’ve not prayed much for those same things myself. I am also guilty of telling people I’ll pray for them when I didn’t. Thank you for talking about this subject so freely. It’s helped me.
There’s so much religiosity in the way christians pray. This is one of the most refreshing blogs I’ve read on the subject. I don’t think everyone who is commenting is getting it, but I want to thank you for it.
excellent post, Frank. I’m one of those people you prayed for and your prayer made a difference. I appreciate your willingness to be obedient and intercede for others.
For sure there is this tendency with many Christians that you describe. It IS the standard response to news of a difficult situation, maybe for lack of more sympathetic words.
I think this probably reveals a deeper problem- not insincerity per se, but an absence of a prayer life to begin with. Maybe their concept of prayer is limited to “ask and receive”, like God is a convenience store on the corner that one swings by to pick up some needed items every now and then. Christians who only pray in times of need aren’t realizing the true nature of prayer- letting God pass through you and you passing through God. OF course there are different means of prayer (Eph. 6:18, “by means of all prayer”) but this is the most essential.
As far as asking for prayer, Paul asked for prayer in many of his epistles, so I’m not quite sure how you mean that. Some examples- Eph 6:18-19, Col 4:3, 1 Thes 5:25, 2 Thes 3:1, Heb 13:18, Rom 15:30, 2 Cor 1:11, Phil 1:19, Philemon 22. Do you mean just not in small things? When is there ever a situation that you don’t trust in the prayers of others?
Kyle: Yes. I’m aware of Paul’s prayer requests to the churches. If one studies his life and ministry, they will discover that he was often in very difficult situations. And he requested prayers accordingly. I have made similar requests to the churches I’ve been related to as well as people who know me, but only when I was in situations that demanded it. That’s exactly my point. At the same time, I am very thankful when God puts me on the hearts of His people and they pray for me. And I hope that continues. That was the opening point of the post.
I appreciated that you are so thankful when others pray for you and that you put such a high value on intercession. I’m so used to Christians making ‘I’ll pray for you’ such a trite thing. This is a very encouraging post.
Frank is right about the problem of “Christianeze” with regard to prayer, though I’m not sure the solution is to avoid asking for prayer or to limit intercession.
I think he hits the heart of the solution in talking about burdens for intercession laid on us by the Holy Spirit. When God lays those burdens on us, He is inviting us to join with him, at that moment, in a targeted response to that need. That’s a lot more fun and more effective than droning through a long prayer list, which mostly lists everyone’s relatives in the hospital.
Frank is right that we can’t “pray for every person we know all the time,” and that the legalistic form of this rule is not in the New Testament, but a form of this constant prayer (and, yes, intercession) IS commanded in the New Testament. Not the “prayer list of death,” but the normal dance of initiative and submission that characterizes our walk in the Spirit.
That is, we go into prayer with a heart for intercession as well as fellowship and praise. We intercede out of principle, but we keep our spiritual ears open at the same time. Some things we pray for, the Spirit seems to have no interest in at this time, but others, the Spirit grabs onto and says “Go!” In this way, by faithfully interceding, we search and find what things are the burdens that we need to be bearing at that time. Because we love Jesus, we actively seek to share His burdens. We don’t have to wait for Him to give us burdens.
But as far as intercession and the scriptures, we’re told to be “serious and watchful in our prayers” (I Peter 4:7), “that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men” (I Tim. 2:1), and that “we ought always to pray and not lose heart,” asking that God would “get justice for us from our adversary” (Luke 18). As part of our normal Christian equipment, we are to be “praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints” (Eph. 6). We’re also given the example of Paul the apostle, who constantly requested that prayer be offered up for him so that he could actually do the work he was called to do.
The question isn’t WHETHER we are to spend time interceding for one another, it’s HOW are we supposed to do that in an authentic and Spiritually effective way. One answer is the “feeling your way forward” in intercession, as I described above. Another answer would be for our church groups to learn to spend more time in prayer together, listening together for the burdens of the Holy Spirit. Though Jesus went off to pray alone, most of the other references to prayer in the NT are to groups of people praying together. Among the many other ways that we need to learn to do “life together,” learning to intercede together should be a top priority. David Smithers has some good practical stuff along these lines.
Thanks for your post Joshua, you hit on some of the same things that were running through my mind as I read Frank’s post this morning. One thought I would add is that intercessory prayer is work, spiritual labor. I believe this is at least part of what Paul means in verses like Col 2.1-3 and 2 C 11.27-28. Somewhere between being lax in prayer and droning through a long prayer list there is a place for laboring in prayer. I’m still trying to find that place!
To be honest, I think we can all say, “I’ll pray for you” and we forget at times. It is a big commitment to pray for someone because prayer takes time and should come from a genuine love/heart response. Yes, we are called to come away with Jesus and pray regularly, as His word says and Jesus wants our fellowship, we are His children and to talk and listen with Him is a powerful thing. Some of our prayers get answered, others don’t, but we trust Him anyway. I believe Prayer changes us first and foremost. It makes us more spiritually aware of Christ, his will/ways and our love and concern for others, so in turn we pray according to His Spirit.
This has been on my mind since I first read today’s blog: 1 Thessalonians 5:17 “pray without ceasing”(NASB).
How each of us works this out day to day is a matter for each one of us to decide. If prompted, do so. If asked, do it right then. If pondering a passage of scripture or dealing with a particular situation, do what you feel you must do.
It is all about what the Psalm says: Ps. 16:8 I keep the Lord in mind always. Because He is at my right hand, I will not be shaken.
9 Therefore my heart is glad and my spirit rejoices; my body also rests securely. (HCSB)
This keeps us focused on Christ and, in a sense, in a continual attitude of prayer (v8)
This is something that affects our entire being (v9).
Can’t get no better than that!
I’m not sure I agree at all Frank. Not because I don’t see some valid points. When I hear someone ask me to pray for them I usually have a kneejerk reaction assuming triteness but then when I think that someone has asked me to speak with the God of the Universe concerning something — I no longer care about their motivation for asking (whether its genuine or just christianeze as you call it). I am blown away that such an activity is there at my disposal and I wonder why I don’t do this more often! After all, it is not my business to care whether or not someone else’s heart is in the right place unless you know them well enough to challenge them in love.
As for the nuclear part – why not use this for every little thing in our lives — though I admit I rarely ask anyone to pray for such things on my behalf. I’m not sure that it’s a bad idea though.
This is interesting to me because I had this exact conversation with my father (earthly) concerning trivial prayer requests yesterday afternoon.
Interesting topic and I hope to hear your thoughts or anyone else’s.
Mike: I’m puzzled . . . there’s nothing in the post about judging people’s motives (I have spoken against this very thing many times). Nor is there anything in it about not praying for others or anything that says that asking for prayer is a bad idea. The post makes three simple points (as Ashley correctly pointed out), none of which fits what you’re responding to. Am I that unclear of a writer?
Perhaps I am reading further into things that were not written but I will communicate where I drew my conclusions from:
“In Revise Us Again, I address the problem of Christianeze. The phrase, “I’m praying for you” or “I’ll pray for you” sometimes falls into that category for some believers. Meaning, many Christians say it all the time to people, but often don’t carry it out. It’s the right thing to say. It’s part of the culture of being a Christian.”
To say that someone is being insincere or just speaking ‘Christianeze’ when they say “I’ll pray for you” judges a persons heart when determined in an individual event. Looking back at your post I see that you are speaking in general terms and it is a point I can agree with as being a true statement.
“To the contrary, as long as I’ve been a Christian, I’ve watched prayer requests reduced to the trivial and insignificant. And so in many respects, it’s been cheapened and has lost its power.”
It was this section that led me to the following line of interpretation: 1) Prayer requests that deal things appearing trivial cheapen prayer requests, 2) Cheapening prayer requests is a bad thing, and therefore 3) Making trivial prayer requests is a bad thing.
Thanks!
Yes, you are reading things into those statements. Many people have confessed to me that they have said “I’ll pray for you” and didn’t follow through. So I stand by that statement. Also, using Christianize isn’t a judgment of motives. We learn to the culture of language quite unconsciously. It’s not ill-intended or motivated. And it’s Christianeze for “some” … that’s how it was put. You’ve also missed the nuance in the latter part. I was speaking *for myself* . . . that I will only ask for prayers when it’s something that’s major. I never said it was “bad” for others to do so. In fact, the language of “bad” is never used. I’m glad the post has helped give others a higher view of prayer. I really think it’s much more than what many Christians have been taught. .
In my observation and experience, it’s always best to take what people say at face value and *ask questions* if one isn’t sure what they mean.
“Yes, you are reading things into those statements.”
Fair enough.
“In my observation and experience, it’s always best to take what people say at face value and *ask questions* if one isn’t sure what they mean.”
This is sound advice indeed I surely intend to take to heart!
“I never said it was “bad” for others to do so. In fact, the language of “bad” is never used.”
Correct but it seemed implied to me as I pointed out. Having this cleared up is helpful.
I appreciate your taking the time to help me understand where my interpretations were going off the tracks. Perhaps with a few more reading and grammar lessons I’ll be able to follow a whole post from start to finish! I had a feeling that I was not getting something(s) when I made my post but thought it would be a good opportunity to be honest from where I was at. As I mentioned before you are right to say asking questions is a far better format in that situation.
I look forward to seeing your next blog entry.
Thx. I’ll try to be clearer in the future.
Wow… in fact, just as soon as I read this, I began to distinctly hear God’s voice instead of it just getting lost somewhere in the muck of my mind as it seems to have for years. This revelation has been immensely liberating for me, and so quickly, too! I wondered for years where the voice of the Spirit went and began vainly trying to sort back through to find where I went wrong… but just now He said, “You haven’t been as wrong as you thought you were.” Oh my gosh! Thank you, Frank!
I really needed this post today. In fact, I’ve needed this truth for awhile… praise God for His using people like you to get through to fellow simpletons. Haha!
Totally agree.
When I learn that someone is going through something, or someone is strongly put on my heart (usually someone I have a relationship with), I’ll often take a moment and pray for them. Then I might send them an encouraging text/message/call and let them know that I have prayed for them. For me, this keeps it from being an empty sentiment.
This is a really great point. I’ve never heard it put so strongly, but I agree with it. My dad taught me that oftentimes we are praying for things or people without even knowing it because of the groaning of the Spirit within, which I think is true sometimes. But that doesn’t mean that even then the Spirit is praying for each and everything we’ve become aware of inside of each one of us.
I will start to put this into practice now. Appreciate your exhortation, brother.
Question: what do you do when someone asks if you will pray for them, and you don’t feel led to?
I’ve never turned anyone down who asked for prayer. But I may not pray the way they want me to as I can only pray in faith.
Great reply, thank you.
I couldn’t agree more. There is so much bound up with this ‘praying for you’ language which has so often put me under pressure. I try to make a point now, of never saying it unless it’s actually true. I think I used to say it in the past (pre-detox) just to make the other feel better. It was well meant, but there was no truth in it. I so much want to get to the place where all my thoughts are in Him.
‘Surely You desire truth in the inward parts.’
A good word, Frank– I agree with you and all the other posts (except Renee’s). I’d like to find another word for my time alone with God rather than ‘prayer’ because it has so much religious baggage attached. The Desert Fathers of the early centuries of the Christian era have a lot to say about what that time can be like, but we, in the Protestant tradition, have generally divorced ourselves from their wisdom. God’s words to us are far more important than ours to Him; we should listen more than we speak.
Great post. Your three points are wise. I think some of the comments are off the topic and are getting into things you never talked about.
Hi Frank,
Thank you for your post. Prayer is something that is missing in the church because people are often not taught how to develop a discipline for prayer. I’m not suggesting that prayer should be laborious or long, but it is a discipline to learn how to pray continuously. I appreciate your assertion that much of your prayer life is fellowship and that there is a distinction between fellowship and intercession. Believers with a gift for intercession or a discipline for intercession quickly learn to protect their prayer time. I have found it easier to do by asking people to meet with me for prayer. Prayer is about being face to face with God and learning who He is through the conversation and learning to yield in the process.
Thank you for your teaching and blog. Your words have been like water in the desert for both me and my wife. May God bless you for your obedience and worship!
Regards,
Nathan
In line with what someone else mentioned, the phrase can be used as a type of get out of jail free card, to be pulled out and quickly offered to someone going through some type of tragedy. I have a son who was born with cancer, a big old life threatening tumor. While it was comforting to be told, and know, people were praying for us, I also always rejected the prevalent notion that the more we had praying, “bombarding heaven,” the more likely we were to get what we wanted from God. Why should our many prayers, of whatever type and variety, mean more than the lonely cry of the mom we met who was utterly and completely alone, her child also near death? Throughout our journey, what has meant the most are those people, some complete strangers, who have demonstrated consistent and deep concern, not those who quickly trot out the phrase, perhaps rather than be willing to hear you rant and rave and question what God is doing, etc., . . Then, when my son has done extraordinarily well, I have heard so many times, “God answers prayer, doesn’t He?”. And I want to say to those eager for the happy ending, yes, mine and those of the parents of the little girl who died a skin sack of bones, in extreme pain, with tumors misshaping her lovely six year old face. She had cancer over half her life. Or the fifteen other stories I could tell, with names. Yeah, the vast majority bombarded heaven, too. It makes no sense to say He heard me and didn’t hear them. I do believe prayer has much more to do with relationship than asking for stuff, whether it be the truly mudane or your child’s life or cessation of pain. And my faith is strengthened by following the walks of those parents who are strong believers, who even after their dearest wish was denied, experience healing and joy. There is definitely a difference in the lives of those who walk with Jesus, but it doesn’t give you more collateral to get those “prayers answered”.
So powerful, Heather … Thanks for sharing it
Yes…thanks Heather!!!
I Love this
Very freeing. Very biblical.
Thanks Frank, this post really helped me! I have felt quilt and condemnation from other Christians because my prayer life did not line up with theirs. I agree with everything you said.
PS Thanks Alicia for your comments
What i also noticed is that the heartfelt prayers tend to be answered and the trivial “praying just for a checkmark” prayers never work. I guess it’s because God knows when we really care and when we are trying to be “better Christians.”
I can relate to ALL of the responses thus far. After sitting under teachings about prayer from various (non-liturgical) streams for several years now, I’m finding that, these days, I hardly SAY anything, but rather listen and observe. I’ve discovered that I communicate best what’s on my heart (and His?) through song and/or while out on a hiking trail…that I can be “prompted” to pray for someone or some situation anytime, anywhere, and THAT is when I “go for it.” Also, because of my athletic background, I tend to see one aspect of prayer as more like being on a team with God – a partnership with what He wants to “do” in me and those in my sphere of influence….
I have taken the same road as you Frank, unless you are serious please don’t pray. I also see my pray time as fellowship with God, i pray for those who God have place on my heart. One of the things that is on my heart regularly is to understand my sisters and brothers.
Ditto Alicia!
I could not agree with your sentiments more and thank you for having the courage to speak so openly on this issue. Some time ago now I was convicted because I was telling people that I would pray about a need but then not doing so. Of course, This resulted in guilt and condemnation and the feeling that I was not a “good” Christian! Finally it occurred to me that I do care deeply about many things and many people BUT it was impossible for me to pray for all of this on a regular basis. It came as a great relief when I realized that God was not calling me to do this, rather to listen for His leading on when I need to pray for other situations. So, my response when asked to pray for others now is to simply say that I do care about them and will certainly pray as and when God quickens me to do so. And He does! Of course, this is very dependent upon my listening for that Voice and responding accordingly. I am still working on that part…
Renee, that’s a pretty nasty comment. I’m surprised that it was approved. Frank never said it was wrong to pray for insignificant trivial things. He said he doesn’t ask people to pray FOR HIM unless the issues are serious. He never talked about what he himself prays or doesn’t pray for in his own life.
It’s sarcastic condescending comments like yours that make the world see Christians as unloving and harsh to one another. Get over yourself please!
Frank, this blog really helped me. I appreciate your humility. The one you wrote on God’s view of a woman was awesome.
Well,,,,,lucky for you that you’re so holy. I on the other hand enjoy talking to God about everything under the sun…..including the “trivial & insignificant”. Since you’re such a holy guy….please define for me what exactly is considered trivial and insignificant to God?
I saw this tendency to trivialize awhile ago and made the conscious choice to never say “I’m praying for you” or “I’ll pray for you” unless I stopped and did it right then. I’ve also been seeking the voice of God more and trying to follow the Spirit’s prompting about when to pray for others and who to pray for.
Something else I’ve seen that really bothers me is this idea that if we have more people praying for us, it’s somehow better or more effective. I don’t see that in the Bible, but I see people asking for requests to be added to prayer chains and email lists and it saddens me. When our daughter was critically ill, many people prayed for us and for her, but I don’t believe God heard those requests any better or answered them any differently than if it had just been my husband and I praying them.
It has left me wondering when to ask for prayer and when to just talk with God myself.
I think I should have read further down before replying but I really agree with you Joy. I also have a dislike of prayer chains and email lists for prayer with the added call that the more prayer brings victory, not always the case.
Agree completely. One of those times when I will pray for someone, as you also mentioned, is when a name comes to mind and I begin thinking about that person. I will pray right then for that person even though I have no clue what may be going on with them at that time. Many times I will end up crossing paths with that person a few days later. At that time I will tell them they came to mind and that I prayed for them. I feel that is one way God prepares us for situations or encounters we may have with people.
Thanks for articulating something I’ve been percolating on, but felt so “unchristian” about it … Recently, I was listening to someone who was pouring out some anguish and grief. At one point, I said, “I will pray for you about this.”. She immediately stopped talking, I said, “I didn’t mean you had to stop talking ,,,” and she said, Oh! And continued her lament.
I realized she had been conditioned.: “”I will pray for you” means “you can stop talking about your pain now … I’m done listening.”
It was a powerful lesson for me.
That is my experience too, but I am also just as likely to get in touch with that person and just say “hi” taking that as a prompt from the Holy Spirit that it is time to reconnect for some reason, often someone is struggling or it is just the right time to be in touch again.
I never say I will pray for someone as I won’t remember, I know I won’t. I may pray there and then though.
I can relate to this post. Since I understood God loves me based on who He is and not what I do, my whole Christian understanding was shaken, and I started looking for more of that grace in the Bible. But at the same time I found myself realizing many things I had given for granted were not even biblical doctrines. Prayer was one of them. Why to ask for forgiveness when it was given on the cross and not because I asked for it? Or, if I am a child of God, He takes care of me always, why to ask Him something He’s already given to my in Christ? Asking those old prayers seemed to me like not having faith in God’s promisses about caring for me and all of His children.
So I don’t ask anymore about blessing another Christian, but I thank God for blessing that person already.
And, Frank, last but not least, what you are saying here is alingned to what Oswald Chambers teaches in My Utmost for His Highest. That is: Our intercession comes as the Spirit moves us to do it. We shouldn’t intercede unless it is promted by the Spirit Himself.