Today I interview Ray Edwards. Ray is a Christian businessman – a copywriter by trade. There’s a lot of confusion today among the Christian community on the matters of having a business and the ethics of marketing.
I caught up with Ray to ask him some questions about these topics, as he’s a seasoned expert in the field. For those of you who are like me and give much of your income to the poor, you’ll want to learn how you can help others more by having a business of your own.
I hope you’ll read the interview and check out Ray’s resources.
Ray, you are a professional copywriter. Many of my blog readers are bloggers, authors, pastors and/or teachers in some capacity. What exactly is a copywriter and how can your services be of help to my readers?
Ray Edwards: Copywriting is persuasion in print. These days, “print” can mean ink on paper or more likely words on a screen.
The copywriter’s job is to tell a story that persuades the reader to take action. This skill is really about more than mere advertising and marketing. It’s about impacting human behavior.
One of the greatest copywriters to ever work in the advertising field was a man named Rosser Reeves. He’s best known for creating the USP, or Unique Selling Proposition – an idea taught in nearly every marketing course. Reeves created the tagline for M&M candies: “melts in your mouth, not in your hand.”
One day Reeves and a coworker were having lunch in Central Park. On their way back to Madison Avenue they passed a beggar, who was holding a sign and donation cup. The sign read: I am blind.
The beggar was mostly ignored by passersby.
Reeves turned to his colleague and said, “I bet I can change just a few words on that sign, and dramatically improve his results.”
Reeves explained to the blind man that he was one of the world’s greatest copywriters and he wanted to help. The blind man allowed Reeves to rewrite his sign.
Almost instantly, after rewriting the sign, Reeves and his colleague watched as people began to stop, look around, and then make donations.
What did Reeves write?
It is springtime. And I’m blind.
A tiny shift in words can make a powerful impact on how they are received.
You’ve written a book called Writing Riches. Instead of asking, “what is your book about,” I’m going to ask the question that’s behind that question. And that unspoken question is, “how are readers going to benefit from reading your book?”
Ray Edwards: It’s really a cookbook of persuasion recipes. It should be useful to you if you want more people to open your emails, to visit your website, to engage with you in social media, and to buy your products and services.
The more astute reader of the book will quickly realize that these recipes are also useful for selling more than just products and services; they are equally as effective at selling ideas, position, and advocacy.
Tell us a bit about the experiences that shaped the insights in the book.
Ray Edwards: I’ve been writing ad copy in one form or another since I was 14 years old. I spent over 25 years in the radio broadcasting business. In the early 2000’s I began writing promotions for Internet entrepreneurs. When I realized that radio was in trouble as an industry, and the Internet was a brand-new frontier with exciting possibilities, I started my own online copywriting business.
In very short order, I began offering more comprehensive marketing advice. Over the last few years, we’ve been specializing in Internet product launches-a very interesting new phenomena. It’s possible to engineer large “cash flow events” online in a way that simply can’t be done through traditional media.
I had the very good fortune of connecting with great clients at the beginning of my business. I’ve worked with people like Tony Robbins, Jack Canfield, Mark Victor Hansen, and many other well-known authors and speakers.
One day, when I realized I was booked up for months ahead of time and couldn’t take on a new client if I wanted to, I realized, “I should write a book.”
The book is for people who want to learn how to do this for themselves, or who can’t afford my fees, or can’t afford to wait for me to be available.
Tell us about the other services you offer.
Ray Edwards: I do a limited amount of one-on-one consulting, and these days I do very little copywriting for clients. I take on a limited number of private clients each year, and work very closely with them. I’m more interested these days in working with people in a partnership role, for fee plus percentage of business growth. If I have a vested interest in the growth of the business, that serves both me and the client.
For those who can’t afford or don’t qualify for my one-on-one help, we offer a group coaching program, and do frequent workshops and seminars.
Finally, for people just starting out, who are financially strapped, or just want to see what I’m all about, we have free resources available at our website.
Occasionally, someone will post a nasty comment on this blog saying that authors who sell books are doing something wrong. (Other authors get the same thing from time to time.) These people obviously aren’t aware that I don’t personally profit from my royalties (that money goes toward ministry expenses and helping the poor and needy). Nevertheless, there are still a few Christians out there who got it in their heads somehow that all Christian authors who allow a publisher to sell their books are doing something wrong. Can you speak to this?
Ray Edwards: I believe this is the result of a misunderstanding of Scripture.
The Bible itself says: “Beloved, I pray that you may prosper in all things and be in health, just as your soul prospers.” (3 John 1:2)
In what things does he say he wants us to prosper? “In all things.” Last time I checked, all things includes money. Frank, I love what you do, putting the money toward ministry expenses in helping the poor and needy.
I believe there’s a place for that. I also love what other Christian entrepreneurs do when they build wealth and businesses that prosper their employees, their vendors, their customers, clients, and yes-gasp!-themselves.
Now, there is a danger here. The danger is forgetting that money is not your treasure – God is. When you have that straight, money becomes a blessing to you and to everyone you serve.
Similar question to the above: You’re a Christian and a successful businessman. I’ve met a handful of Christians (I literally mean a handful, yet they do exist) who felt that a follower of Jesus who has a business, or does marketing, advertising, copywriting, etc. is doing something sinful. Can you address that?
Ray Edwards: I believe there are three great tricks Satan has played on the church, in an attempt to rob us of the power and authority Jesus granted us when he ascended into heaven. Satan’s oldest trick, of course, is deception. It’s really the only card he has left to play. He has attacked the church at three crucial points:
- The deception that says Grace is a doctrine, and not the gospel itself. This deception began very early, as Paul’s letter to the Galatians demonstrates.
- The deception that says the power of the Holy Spirit became limited once the New Testament canon was complete. I understand the desire to believe this, because it explains our powerlessness. The only problem with this doctrine is it isn’t in the Bible.
- The deception that says money is evil, and we should not get any of it. If you believe this, you have a real difficulty, because Jesus himself advised his followers to use unrighteous Mammon to win influence in the world.
We would all love it if the Bible told us exactly how much money we are allowed to have, how many square feet we could have in our house, and how much we were free to spend on a car.
But that would be the Law all over again. And Jesus has freed us from that.
Of course, with great freedom comes great responsibility.
I believe that is the point of the story of the rich young ruler who came to Jesus asking what he must do to be saved.
Preachers love to tell us how Jesus instructed this man to sell everything he had, give to the poor, and come follow the Lord. The young ruler went away sad, because he had great possessions. Usually, the sermon ends with Jesus’s pointed statement about how it’s “easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into heaven.”
That makes for a neat sermon ending, but it’s not where the story ended. The disciples were puzzled by Jesus’s response, because their Hebrew culture taught them if they had God’s favor they would be rich. They even asked Jesus, “Who then can be saved?”
Jesus tells them that no one who has given up everything to follow him will fail to be blessed. In fact, he tells them they will receive 100 times what they sacrificed in this lifetime.
It’s puzzling, at first, because on one hand Jesus seems to say money prevents us from getting into heaven; on the other hand he clearly says he’ll give us 100 times as much in this lifetime.
What’s the point he’s driving at?
I believe it’s simply this: it’s not about the money. It’s about the position of your heart as it relates to the money. If money is your ultimate treasure, then you’re serving the spiritual entity known as Mammon. If Jesus is your treasure, you’re safe to receive great wealth, to prosper with purpose.
Tell us the difference between manipulation and persuasion?
Ray Edwards: Manipulation results in you making a decision you will later regret. Persuasion results in you making a decision you will later celebrate.
What do you say to the person who writes you a nasty email charging you of “peddling books” when you’ve simply let your opt-in subscribed readers know that a new book is available?
Ray Edwards: This kind of response is indicative of a deeper belief. That belief is: being paid means your motives are bad.
Whether we’re talking about books, products, or services, the issue at stake is always the same: the state of your heart.
I passionately promote and sell books, products, and services. I do it because I feel I have real solutions to real problems experienced by real people. The guiding question for me is, “Does this serve God and the person to whom I’m selling?”
If I have a solution to a problem that causes another person pain, and I don’t offer the solution, I am robbing that person of relief. Perhaps relief that only I can provide.
The natural question is, why don’t you simply give away your books and your products and your services for free?
As with all questions surrounding money, it’s never as simple as it seems.
For some people, giving them a solution for free means they will not value it and therefore it will not help them.
For other people, when you give them one solution for free, they feel they are entitled to have all solutions for free. This also does not serve them.
But more central to my answer is this: I believe that capitalism was God’s idea, that it is clearly revealed in the Old Testament, and that it is indicative of principles that are inextricably built into Creation itself.
There are many lessons to be learned from studying God’s approach to business and commerce. My first advice to business consulting clients is that they read the book of Proverbs daily, and for the rest of their lives.
It’s biblical to give away bread to those who need it; it’s not biblical to give away your seed (your capital). Without the seed, there will be no bread next year.
One of the most startling scriptures about business is Proverbs 11:26: “The people curse him who holds back grain, but a blessing is on the head of him who sells it.”
If these ideas interest you, I highly recommend two books: Thou Shall Prosper by Rabbi Daniel Lapin and Business for the Glory of God by Wayne Grudem.
What else do you want my readers to know about your services?
Ray Edwards: My company is made up of a small band of remarkable people who are out to change the world through business. We feel that God has called us to a unique endeavor. We’re helping business owners and entrepreneurs bring the Kingdom of God to the marketplace.
We believe that business in and of itself is good and Godly. If that resonates with you, I invite you to get to know us. There is plenty of free material available at RayEdwards.com, and I do a free weekly online radio show which you can listen to at RayEdwardsPodcast.com.
Religious Jealousy
Frank and Ray,
Thanks a ton for sharing this info. Marketing and sales are my background. I’m always searching for opportunities to grow my understanding in this field. I always make certain of my approach to marketing our company and products to avoid the cliff of manipulation. I like the distinction Ray made between persuasion and manipulation being the end result of celebration or regret. That is quite insightful and worthy of reflection before releasing any marketing material.
Thanks!
Great post Frank, the power of words is incredible. This interview with Ray Edwards has given much food for thought. God bless both of you.
Browsing stumbleupon.com I noticed your site bookmarked as: Ray Edwards | Beyond Evangelical | The Blog of Frank Viola. Now i’m assuming you book-marked it yourself and wanted to ask if social bookmarking gets you a good deal of visitors? I’ve been thinking of doing some social bookmarking for a few of my websites but wasn’t certain if it would generate any positive results. Appreciate it.
No, I didn’t bookmark it. Someone else must have.
Ray & Frank, thank you for this interview. As someone who grew up a Pastor’s kid (then became a Pastor’s wife for a while), the idea of giving without anything in return, and it being wrong to accept pay for work if your “heart was right,” was very ingrained in me. I was in business for years before I realized that I couldn’t operate a business like that if I wanted to truly make a difference in the world, even on a small scale, and stay sane and able to help support my family.
“The workman is worthy of his hire” is one I remind myself of often. And I agree with the idea that capitalism is woven throughout the Bible. I see the woman of Proverbs 31 as one heck of a creative entrepreneur, personally!
Love your distinction between persuasion and manipulation, Ray. The best copywriters and marketers are able to lead us to the decision, and inspire us to take action, that we’ll be thankful for later.
Thanks so much for hosting this interview Frank. It really blessed me more than I could say!
Ray – I so appreciate your clear representation of the gospel in the business world, watching you run your business in such a public way through your website and newsletter and never violating your call to walk in the Spirit and love your neighbour as yourself is truly inspirational!
Thanks for all you are both doing to see Jesus get His full reward!
Thank you Phil!
Jesus actually tells his followers to “sell your possessions and give the money to the poor… do not store up things of this world…” these are not teachings that can be understood through the lens of American capitalism.
I am a singer/songwriter who does not profit from my music. I give it away and use donations to provide for those who can’t afford it. That said, I have no issue with those who need an income from what they do. I confess that the issue of capitalism and true Christian values is an issue that I’ve struggled with for years. I’ve read some works recently from authors who believe that capitalism is at odds with the teachings of Christ. I am praying and allowing every member of the body to express their ideas without judgement or critism. I appreciate this interview and plan on buying the book. Thanks Frank for providing an open forum in which we can work through our process of finding truth and light in which we can walk.
Well said, Steve. Jesus said the world would know we are his disciples by our love for one another, and you just expressed that so clearly. Thank you!
I think it takes a very humble and wise servant to be wealthy and be willing to allocate those resources according to the Master’s direction. Not all are able and willing to do this. Jesus was keen on staying true to His purpose and saw any persuasion to veer from that as satan. I pray that we all seek to yoked to Jesus and find the satisfaction our soul desires in being faithful to that purpose the Master has given to each child of the kingdom.
A nice interview and good discussion in the comments.
The only thing I would like to add to it is that it is very, very easy to rationalize and give lip service to God being my God and not Mammon. “These people honor me with their lips . . .” and “The heart is deceitful above all things and . . .”
Many times we don’t see what we’re drawing “life” from until it is taken away from us. May Jesus increase and everything else decrease.
Nancy —
It’s not the money itself that is the issue. But as you allude to as you continue your thoughts, it is how we allow money to affect us that is the issue.
“For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.” 1 Tim. 6:10
Note – It’s the “love” (or craving) of money that has caused “some” to wander from the faith. Not all who make money wander from the faith, and money, itself, is not the evil. Many people “do good” with the money they earn.
Great points Bridget. I appreciate you taking time to share this.
I too have had the same questions as many others here. You can not really formulate a pat answer, for everyone’s circumstances are different and God will operate differently on different levels in each person’s life. (This whole thing brought to mind Job)
I will say that I disagree with the comment that God used or invented ‘capitalism’. There is a huge difference between operating in a family/tribe/community vs operating from the single entity of a business: non-profit vs for profit. People worked the land in the Old Testament and did some bartering. Those that made things, did so to support themselves and families, for the most part. Sharing, not capitalism, was an important part of life, from what I can ascertain.
In the New Testament, God made it very clear through his Son that he cared greatly about our spiritual life (we worship God in spirit and in truth: not with our wallets and consumer goods) while all else took a back seat. This has always been so, but with the advent of Christ it was made very clear. There is a popular scripture (each person sees it a different way) that tells us that if we just submit totally to the Lord, that all else will be added unto us. For me, it means I need not be concerned about what I will eat, drink, dress in etc, that I can leave all that up to the Lord as I worship only him. I see the things added as spiritual blessings and gifts that I may share with others, things like wisdom and understanding. Not – particularly money, new car, better housing etc, although those things may also be added. In times past when laid off from a job, I submitted to the Lord in finding a new job, even to being almost out of money to survive. He is always on time! He knows our needs. But our biggest need is total submission to the Lord in all things!
I agree that when you make a product and put it out on the market, you should get a reasonable return for your effort. But that is how the world operates. The things of the Lord – freely we receive, freely we give – is how God works. We are in the world but are not to operate as the world operates via its standards. There is the key. Here is another: many people today have much debt. We have a govt that tells us repeatedly to go out and consumerate as much as possible to keep the economy going forward and create jobs. So we have a society who purchases things they do not need to live with money they do not really have to spend.
While in the world, we as Christians are to operate according to God’s standards. Whatever job we have, we should do our best work while exemplifying the values of Christ, to the glory of God. Manipulating people or using words etc to place things in the best possible light to sell something causes me to pause. I seek the Lord on such occasions. I am not a big fan of marketing, as it usually equates with manipulating masses to take actions they would not normally take. Then again, if consumers are not operating in the Holy Spirit, they deserve whatever they receive by participating. That is just my view and I am not putting anyone down.
Bottom line to all this: seek the Holy Spirit in all things and He will lead and guide you. Example: it was due to the unctioning of the Spirit that I purchased Frank’s new book, even though I had read books from others with reference to Bethany. I am on my 3rd reading and it just floors me every time! So spiritually uplifting. I am sharing with others. We should be sharing spiritual truths (life) with one another and outsiders: and while the natural world (death) has nothing to offer us spiritually, there are things we must have to live life, but we must be very selective in the choices we make and share with others when we can.
While I agree that it’s not ideal to say God “invented” capitalism), the intended meaning was that God condones capitalism (aka FREE enterprise) which is demonstrable if you consider the *whole* Bible, not just the “families sharing and bartering.” God in the Bible endorses private property (“every man under his fig tree”) and blessed many to prosper and increase with goods (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Ephraim)–an odd thing to do if he wants us to all aim to be poor, not aspiring for more and share what little we have. Simply put, there just is no leg to stand on for judging and making people wrong for being capitalists simply because you find it distasteful personally or were hurt by those consumed with making money.
Also, you may be surprised if you check a commentary on what Jesus referred to when he told the 12, “Freely you have received; freely give.” He was NOT talking about the preaching or teaching (or by extension teaching by selling books)! We can know this for sure if you go down further where he tells them they are “worthy” of their hire/wages for that. The teaching they did came from their own mind and time and effort which it is fair for everyone to be paid for.
In contrast to that, the one thing they received freely and could not charge for (just as Elisha refused to accept payment for – 2Ki 5:16) is for *healing and deliverance*. Luke records how Jesus gave both the 12 and the 72 “power and authority over demons and every disease.” This supernatural/divine power was not to be used for financial gain because it was given freely to them for ministry.
So this “freely you have received/give” passage is NOT a universal instruction to all believers telling them they are not allowed to charge for anything related to the Bible or the truth, etc. as Christians love to wield it against each other. Hope this helps!
Wow Tim – amazing insight, and well-articulated. I appreciate you!
I have a gentle question I would like to ask if I may: how did you hear about Frank’s book that you purchased? Did you see it in a bookstore? Or on a website? Or in a bookstore catalog?
If it was any of those last three, then it was through marketing that you learned of his book.
My point is not to be argumentative, it is merely this: marketing is morally neutral. If we use it to lie to people, to manipulate or control them into doing things that are not in their best interest, that is manipulation. If we use marketing (literally, “to take a thing to market”) to inform people of something that may be of benefit to them, and allow them to make their own decision… That is not manipulation.
I completely believe you when you say it was due to the unction of the spirit that you purchased Frank’s new book.
I also believe that more than likely, it was marketing that put the book in front of you, and gave you the opportunity to make that decision.
If we market with love, and we build our businesses “as unto the Lord”, then we honor our Savior.
I can’t begin to explain how amazingly relevant this is to my life right now! I’ve been grappling with this very issue, particularly in the past couple of days! Thank you!
I don’t think I was very clear (Lack of oxygen) It was the responses to Ray’s beliefs that had me gasping.
Thank you Sally. I really do appreciate you.
There are all kinds of ways to manipulate people: through data, marketing, media, crowds etc. We are overwhelmed with manipulation every day. It’s our business to find out the facts. If manipulation involves lying or deception in any way, it’s wrong … pretty black and white to me.
As far as money being the root of all evil, my take is that the respect or disrespect of money is what makes it evil or righteous. I personally have not nailed that one down yet but I do have a constant awareness of how it influences me and others.
Thanks again Frank for the work you do.
I found Ray’s words to be uplifting and encouraging. A lot of the responses had my brain gasping for oxygen.
Thank you Sally, I appreciate those kind words. 🙂
I have struggled with this idea: if the Holy Spirit reveals something to a person, or gives a person a gift to minister to the Church with, and then that person turns around and makes money writing books with this revelation, is this a violation of the principle “freely you have received, freely give.”
Paul laboring to produce tents and then selling them seems good and right, but to take what the Holy Spirit has freely revealed, which you haven’t labored for, and sell it at a profit, that is what I am struggling with.
And it’s a sincere struggle, not like “I have already judged this as wrong, but I am using delicate language, feigning ‘struggle’ but already convinced.” I’m sincerely trying to reconcile this in my mind, as I do recognize that it cost money to produce and print books.
I think I would have no prick of conscience if, for instance, a Christian architect wrote a book about architecture and made a lot of money. It’s the profiting from the Spirit’s revelation that I struggle with.
Ross: I am an author who doesn’t profit personally from book royalties, but I have no problem with those who do. You’re forgetting a few important things in your logic that make your argument unworkable. See how I respond to this question in my FAQ page: https://www.frankviola.org/faq – I trust it will clear things up for you on this matter.
I appreciate the heart you have in writing this Ross. you bring up some good points. I would however say that while I agree much with what you are saying, there does seem, however, to be some problems if we press your position to its natural conclusions and would like to see what you think.
I realize that the brevity of this will render what I write inadequate, but hopefully my point will be understood enough nonetheless. But I think it is fair to say that it is not just knowledge that has been freely given to us by way of inspiration from the Holy Spirit, but that all of our gifts and talents, whatever they might be, were given to us by God in order to benefit the church and were done so without any cost to us. And so I include in that the very gifts we employ in our daily job from which we derive an income. If indeed, as you say, that we should not charge for the inspiration freely given by the Spirit (even though there is certainly a great deal of labor that goes into taking that inspiration and putting into readable prose and packaging it for delivery, all of which is not free) then I don’t see why all activities of labor by Christians should not equally be 100% volunteer. Why should we be so selective and just hold writing (or a few “ministerial” types of vocation) to this standard?
Thanks Tyler, I think you’re exactly right.
As I’ve thought about this, I’ve realized that my very logical mind is trying to parse out natural abilities from spiritual gifts, and soul and body from spirit. It is part of a current struggle I’m going through, trying to recognize my part and function in the body and learning to live by the indwelling Christ. I guess I’m trying to solve that struggle by compartmentalizing.
My argument is like saying “Today from 9am to 10am I’ll be working with my soul and body to make money, then from 10am to 11am I’ll be freely ministering with my spirit in the gift of prophecy.” Or “I wrote this book using 80% of the Spirit and 20% of soul and body, so I’ll only collect 20% of the proceeds.” Kind of ridiculous!
Thanks again.
This is a fascinating line of discussion. Thank you Frank, Tyler, and Ross.
Hello Frank,
I really enjoy reading your blog and have learned so much from your books. Your work is always challenges me to go deeper with Christ. I found this particular blog post to be especially provocative and uncomfortable in ways I can’t yet fully articulate. I am an entrepreneur. So,my discomfort is not with Christian’s having a business, marketing their products or making a profit. I believe that you can serve God and be prosperous. I also make a distinction between a Christian who owns or operates a business (meaning the person brings their Christian values and principles to how they do business, but the business does not sell religious products and may not market specifically to Christian consumers) and a Christian business which sells Christian products and services to market primarily to Christians.
Regarding the later, I am concerned with the increasing commodization and marketing of Jesus and Christianity in a way that I believe perpetuates superficial “religion” and the “prosperity gospel”. Mr. Edwards’s statement, “We’re helping business owners and entrepreneurs bring the Kingdom of God to the marketplace” reminds me of a recent statement by Bishop T.D. Jakes in a nationally televised interview where he referred to Jesus as a product. As a result of this kind of market-based religion, more and more people are substituting Christian products (books, videos, music, jewelry, clothing) for a relationship with Christ. I’ve been to so many Christian conferences where people’s hunger for God is being filled with the latest “stuff”. I also participate in a networking group for women in business and I’ve seen a dramatic increase in people who want to turn their “ministry” into a business because they believe that doing so will allow them to reach more people and that prosperity is a sign of God’s favor.
I’d also like to ask Mr. Edwards for a fuller explanation of his assertion that “capitalism was God’s idea, that it is clearly revealed in the Old Testament, and that it is indicative of principles that are inextricably built into Creation itself.”
I’d love to hear your thoughts on these issues. Thank you.
Folami
I understand where you’re coming from with your concern about the increasing commoditization and marketing of Jesus and Christianity.
And while I believe there is much abuse in this area, I think it is easy for us to over correct one error and substitute another.
If it weren’t for Christian business people selling “religious” products, would we have Bibles? Commentaries? Instructional materials?
Clearly there are abuses even in those quarters, which really just serves to illustrate my point: it’s not a matter of the activity, it’s a matter of the spiritual state of the heart of people.
In other words, it’s not about the money, it’s about the master.
Money is not my master. Jesus Christ is my master.
I will gladly surrender every stick of material wealth I have before I surrender my personal, real, palpable, sense of the presence of my Lord.
If I have not made it clear, money is merely a means to an end. We don’t love money and use people, we use money to love people. And of course, it’s just one of the many tools available for demonstrating love. It happens to be a powerful to for that purpose.
I’m actually working on a blog post about my assertion that capitalism was God’s idea. I think I can support that contention scripturally.
briefly, we can probably agree that because God is the creator, he is the original owner of everything.
Before the fall, he designated man to have dominion over the earth. Even though we and the creation are now in a fallen state, we remain stewards of his creation.
Clearly the Bible affirms the idea of private ownership (the very basis of capitalism).
The commandment against stealing would have no meaning if there were no such thing as private ownership.
Nearly every page in the book of Proverbs contains instructions on how to conduct business profitably.
I am not going to offer enough exegesis here to make everyone happy, but some of the conclusions which lead me to say that capitalism is God’s idea include:
God created everything, and he owns everything.
God created man to rule over there, and made man is designated property managers.
God established the rules of legal ownership (and ownership is not absolute or eternal, because God owns everything and we are only stewards).
The capitalistic principles of profit and loss are consistent with biblical law, and help us as humans to understand the best use of the property God has given us to manage.
Apparently, it is too late in the day for me to be trusted with the keyboard. Too many typos. I shall return tomorrow. Bless you all. 🙂
Ray,
Thank you for your thoughtful responses.
Some really great stuff to glean here. And what a great ministry Ray has to help people enhance the persuasive efficacy.
On one note of caution, however, is that Ray does, so it would seem, offer an uncritical endorsement of the prevailing american dream ethos which embraces a selfish ambition which stands in utter antipathy to Christ. And perhaps most regrettably he chooses to uphold it with an egregious misuse of a scripture. Let me explain what I mean.
The issue emerges when he quotes 3 John 1:2 where it says “Beloved, I pray that you may prosper in all things” and then goes on to say of this passage that “last time I checked, all things includes money.” Indeed Ray is right that “all things” would include money, but has he chosen the right context in which to make that determination. Where is it exactly that Ray has “checked” to confirm such a position. I submit that perhaps in his own consciousness offers the reference material for his research, and it is clear that his mind was made up long before he had a chance to see what his own alleged Lord and messiah would say about that.
To be clear, I do not wish to say that what Ray says on this particular matter is entirely false. It is more nuance and complex. But with some reflection, the discerning and biblically astute will recognize how Ray has fumbled with scripture in the most egregious of ways for what I must assume for good reason was for self seeking purposes. To be fair, there is a truth in much of what Ray is saying. But it is also true that the most pernicious lies are, like the kind that Satan will most often employ, the ones that are only partially false.
Where Ray and I can agree is that we should have no problem with Christians making money (with a bit of a heavy handed qualifier to come). To charge for a book is no less sinful than Paul the apostle charging for making a tent. Writers and publishers should be compensated for their labors and those who are critical of this need to look to their own efforts from 9 to 5 and if it is not 100% voluntary the stone of dispersion they cast is one of stone cold hypocrisy. And so while I can agree with Ray on this, it is what lurks unmistakably in the shadows of Ray’s words that is most ominous and nefarious.
In short, when Ray retorts that to build wealth for “gasp-[oneself]” he has witlessly endorsed a conception that defies an avalanche of opposing scripture. I have often spoken to people with errant views like Ray’s and asked them to turn to any page of the NT and see if after reading an entire page they don’t encounter a direct and unmistakable repudiation of that view and almost always I win the bet. So replete are the references that are staunchly opposed to Ray’s that one can rightly ask has Ray read his bible and/or if he has what spirit has participated in illuminating it for him. A systematic look at the word of God does not begin to resemble Ray’s own self-serving conception (thankfully Frank Viola clearly does not stand in Ray’s camp).
The number of references I could bring to bear are so manifold perhaps readers would best be served with just a hearty encouragement to read the words of Jesus, Paul, Peter, and James with an eye that sees we can and should make all the money we can but to do so where we 1. Only one master, Jesus, 2. regard our possessions as not our own 3. choosing instead to feed and care for the poor and widowed with for more enthusiasm that our ambitions for luxury cars, fanciful vacations, and a comfortable retirement coffer 4. without a love for anything in the world lest the love of the father be demonstrably not in us (from the very author that Ray quotes from) 5. recognizing that wealth is a “great deception” and 6. holding fast to the admonition that those who regard wealth as Ray does should “weep and howl for your miseries which are coming upon you….[for] It is in the last days that you have stored up your treasure.” (James 5:3).
Tyler,
I commend you on your obvious commitment to staying true to the word of God.
Thank you for taking time to write such a well thought-out response, and I pray that the Lord would bless you wildly.
This sentence :
“The deception that says money is evil, and we should not get any of it. If you believe this, you have a real difficulty, because Jesus himself advised his followers to use unrighteous Mammon to win influence in the world.” is just NOT TRUE.
Jesus advised his followers to use unrighteous Mammon to be receive into everlasting habitations, not to gain influence on the world…
Our Jesus is Prince of True, let the true prevail in every word of our mouth… 😉
Dear Frank, I really like your writtings, I’m still waiting for your last book (I bought it from Amazon).
Thx. Sylvie. I’ll ask Ray to response to your comment. Regarding my new book, thanks. Please read this note from the publisher if you didn’t see it yet: https://www.frankviola.org/2013/05/17/thepublisher/ – I’m told that Amazon is getting a shipment of 6,000 copies this week. So yours should be coming soon.
It seems like a two-step process: use unrighteous mammon to win influence in the world, so that you will be received into everlasting habitations. I don’t see a contradiction. I like the NLT: “use your worldly resources to benefit others and make friends. Then, when your earthly possessions are gone, they will welcome you to an eternal home.”
The whole concept of being welcomed into an “eternal home” makes me think of the refrain from “Thank You for Giving to the Lord” by Ray Boltz: “One by one they came, as far as the eye could see, Each life somehow touched by your generosity, little things that you had done, sacrifices made, unnoticed on the earth, in heaven now proclaimed.”
My big issue is not with making money or abstaining from money. My issue is guarding my heart and keeping it betrothed to Christ, as He prospers and showers me with abundance.
Ajay,
If were not careful, the next thing you know will be off into a discussion of eschatology. 😉
I agree with you, of course. Our treasure is Jesus himself, and as long as we keep our focus on him, everything else comes into alignment.
Sylvie,
Perhaps my choice of words left room for interpretation, but when I read “Use your worldly resources to benefit others and make friends”… I think my statement is in fact true.
Of course, if we think that “to gain influence” means to go off on some sort of egomaniacal power trip, then clearly that is not what the Lord meant.
When I think of people who are my friends, they certainly have influence over my life. I am influenced by their opinions, by their counsel, by their wisdom, by their kindness, and by their love. It seems to me all those qualities result in influence.
That’s what I mean when I speak of “gaining influence”. How do we make friends by using money? We do so by influencing the lives of others for the better, in keeping with the Kingdom.
Thank you for your comment, and your passion for the Truth.