Straight Talk with a Pastor

Welcome to another Thursday UNFILTERED blog post, the only blog that thinks fried beans taste better than refried beans.

Quick Update: For some reason, a number of people have gotten the idea that my new book is only for leaders.

Not true.

48 Laws of Spiritual Power is not just for people who are in professional or non-professional ministry.

It’s for EVERY serious Jesus-follower.

If you’re a Christian, your entire life is a mission trip.

All believers have a ministry of some kind. Even if it’s sharing the gospel with another person.

Also, in order to live the Christian life, you NEED God’s power.

While the book certainly applies to pastors, teachers, church planters, etc. it’s for EVERY true follower of Christ.

I am glad that so many are using it as a devotional. The chapters are short but punchy.

After reading the book, a pastor who attended a leadership mastermind I held in 2020 sent me an email with some interesting questions.

I’m featuring the bulk of the interview today since I think you’ll find it valuable as well as encouraging in your own walk with the Lord.

Enjoy!

Introduction and questions by Dan Sinkhorn

The latest book by author Frank Viola released recently, and it immediately became a bestseller.

It’s called, 48 Laws of Spiritual Power: Uncommon Wisdom for Greater Ministry Impact.

The book is about ministry on every level, so it’s not just for leaders, but for all true Christians. It delves into the upside-down world of Christlike authority and power.

Frank Viola was quoted on the Insurgence Facebook page saying,

“Almost 25 years ago some dude wrote a book called 48 Laws of Power. I have never heard of the author, but listened to four or five chapters at the recommendation of a friend about a decade ago.

It’s all about leveraging the selfish nature of the flesh to gain power over others in work and relationships.

After a few chapters in, I had to stop.

The book applauds selfishness, which is the essence of sin according to the Bible, and it analyzes how to employ clever manipulation to overcome other people for selfish advantage.

Basically, it’s a book about how to sin skillfully and even abusively.

Interestingly, the book has sold over 1 million copies, and it’s especially popular with celebrities and prison inmates.

My new book, 48 Laws of Spiritual Power – which just dropped – explores the opposite. 

It’s a practical exploration on how to leverage the power of God to glorify Him and transform others.

The lessons are counterintuitive and counternatural. It’s the exact opposite of the other 48 laws book.

If my new book sold even a fraction of the other book, we’d see a revolution in the body of Christ.”

End of Frank’s quote.

Many of Frank Viola’s books and public speaking – beginning with his 2018 book Insurgence: Reclaiming the Gospel of the Kingdom – have profoundly affected me.

After reading 48 Laws of Spiritual Power, I felt affirmed in many of my long-held beliefs about Christian leadership, and I was deeply convicted in areas in which I have been weak.

I shared some of my comments and questions with Frank recently, and he graciously responded and allowed me to share the written interview with you.

Dan: Frank, you have succinctly stated your purpose in writing 48 Laws of Spiritual Power in a Facebook post I read when it first appeared on November 1, 2022.

I quoted the first part above. Is there anything else you’d like to say about your vision and method as you created this book?

Frank: Thanks, Dan. Yes, the book is all about how to walk in God’s power, especially as it relates to ministry.

That would include sharing the gospel with a friend or helping someone out who is in a jam.

So it’s not just a book for those who preach or teach publicly. It’s for all Christians. As I said in the book, if you’re in Christ, your entire life is a mission trip.

We are all called to bear witness to the Savior, and that’s ministry.

Dan: I have read a lot of leadership and self-improvement books over the years, and I have attended many conferences, seminars, and heard audio content on the subject.

48 Laws of Spiritual Power is unique in my experience because of its “authority through humility” message.

I noticed that you gradually turned up the heat as laws 1 through 10 grew into laws 11 to 20 and so on.

When I looked at the table of contents, my first impression was, “This is pretty basic stuff for a seasoned Christ-follower.” But when I started reading it, I realized this was a wrong impression. In fact, I was getting uncomfortable in some places due to the Holy Spirit’s conviction.

Internal tension began when I got to laws 18, 19, and 20.

As a lead pastor, I’ve felt the loneliness of isolation and the grief of betrayal often. While I focus on Christ’s cross, I struggle with how to frame my experiences while instinctively withdrawing from sources of pain.

Renewal of one’s heart and mind begins with salvation and new birth, but after long years of walking with the Lord, it’s hard to tell the difference between instinctive flesh and the prompting of the Spirit. Can you comment on that, please?

Frank: Indeed, the book is not “basic stuff” for seasoned Christians.

The comments I keep getting from seminary-trained ministers is, “I never learned much of this in seminary!”

For instance, the chapters entitled The Danger of God’s Power, Beware the Empty House, It Takes One to Make One, Find Spiritual Satisfaction, Realize It Doesn’t Work, etc. have been jaw-dropping chapters for many seasoned leaders.

No one taught them these enduring principles before. So they’ve said.

I have a personal aversion for what is “basic.” I’ve gone on record saying that contemporary Christianity today is a mile wide and two inches deep.

So any book I write is marked by spiritual depth. If it doesn’t have that element, I don’t care to write it.

That usually means it’s NOT for the masses. It’s for those who are hungry and thirsty for that which is deeper and higher.

The hunger and thirst in my own heart is what provokes the books I write and the messages I deliver.

In answer to your question, in general, the flesh always seeks to benefit itself at the expense of others, while the Spirit seeks to benefit others at the expense of oneself.

To expand that, here are some questions to ask ourselves that will help us navigate between flesh and Spirit:

“Where is the cross in this?” Meaning, “Where am I willing to lose (bear the cross) instead of trying to win?”

“Where am I reacting out of fear instead of trusting in God?”

“Where am I relying on my own power vs. the power of God?”

“Where am I doing unto others as I would have them do unto me?”

Then there’s the timing issue.

There are times when we have to take a break from ministry to put the oxygen mask on (else we’ll be of no help to others).

Sharpening our spiritual instincts can help us know when to act.

Sometimes when we’re not clear on God’s will, the best thing is to “play stall ball.”

Meaning, wait.

Often, God works out situations without our involvement when we wait on Him.

Other times He makes His will clear to us after we’ve waited on Him.

Dan: I have to say that Law 27 — “Unveil Christ” — really hits home with me lately. I’ve recently entered an unfamiliar experience of pastoral ministry unlike anything I’ve known in the previous 25 years.

It’s because my former denomination has routinely appointed me to churches where I stayed for about five years and then left before seeing what could happen if I served them longer.

Now, I’m in a place in which I expect to serve far beyond my current five-year mark — Lord willing.

You have shown me I can work to take away barriers that inhibit people’s experience of our beautiful Savior sometimes, but I must help them know Him personally all the time.

Can you discuss how you would keep Christ at the center of everything as a leader? How do you ensure that you are preaching the beauty and majesty of Christ?

Frank: Law 4 answers this. “It Takes One to Make One.”

A person cannot give stunning messages that unveil the Lord unless they’ve first had that revelation within themselves, a revelation (unveiling) that should be ongoing and continuous in a person’s life.

In the book, I lay out a recipe for how to do just that.

Instead of cutting and pasting that whole chapter, it’s better for those interested to just read the book and they’ll see the ingredients.

I’d encourage you and everyone else to put those action steps into practice.

What I find is that most people who don’t have a deep revelation of Christ are all over the place concerning the people they read and listen to.

They listen to and read too many voices.

That’s why I recommend taking a full year off of reading and listening to everything except for one or two voices that are clearly and powerfully revealing Christ and nothing else.

(Those who have ministries like that usually put out a ton of content, so it takes at least a year to get through most or all of their work.)

The recipe I give in that chapter has come out of my own life, and it’s what’s behind my own messages that unveil Jesus.

It doesn’t matter how long a person has been in ministry or has been a Christian, I can usually tell within 15 minutes of hearing them speak if they have a deep revelation of Christ or not.

Most preachers and teachers in our day do not.

That’s one of the reasons why I wrote that chapter and why I have The Insurgence Experience Mentoring Mastermind for kingdom leaders.

We focus on this very issue in highly practical ways.

(People can hear testimonials from some of the leaders who went through it, if interested. Just go here and scroll down to the video.)

Dan: Law 41 – Rethink Success – is really hard for me because I don’t believe I am ego-driven to succeed, but I deeply fear failure.

How do you recommend I deal with my deep-seated fear of being a failure and the fiscal realities I face?

Frank: The fear of failure is endemic to all people in ministry. It also is for everyone who creates.

Discouragement is also pervasive for both groups.

We can never eliminate fear or discouragement, but we can dance with them.

And that’s the secret to overcoming both of them in the moment.

Fear is usually an indicator that a person is on to something that God wants.

Fear is the obstacle that seeks to hinder it. So a person must dance with it to overcome it in the moment.

The chapter on leaving the results with God (Law 7) has freed many people in this area.

Discouragement is typically the result of focusing on the wrong thing.

For example, it’s focusing on the man who was asleep during your last message.

Overcoming discouragement is to realize that your message wasn’t for that man.

It was for the woman sitting to his left who was on the edge of her seat, soaking in every word you uttered.

It was for the guy who was trembling in the second row during your talk.

It was for the woman who was taking so many notes her hands were aching.

My work isn’t for everyone. And I’m fine with that.

If a person who only loves country music was asked to review a Hip Hop album, they’d give it a poor review.

But that’s not because hip hop music is bad, it’s because it’s not for them.

People who love classic rock usually don’t care for country music. That doesn’t mean country music is bad. It’s simply not for them.

“This isn’t for that person” is a great way to defeat discouragement.

It’s wise to ignore most doubters.

In one of the chapters I talk about three different kinds of critics.

Two of them you should listen to, but never listen to the third.

They’ll never help you to improve.

The other side of this is that sometimes we lack because we’re not doing the things we should be doing.

I’ve had conversations with some people in ministry who had very unimpressive ministries. There was no power in their speaking, and thus, there was little effect.

The problem, however, is that despite what others told them, they just kept doing the same things. They didn’t take the prescriptions given.

That’s the other side of this issue.

So on the one hand, we ought to ignore certain voices. But on the other, we are wise to listen to those who are beyond us in revealing Christ and take what they say to heart and act upon it.

Regrettably, few people are willing to do that. And the result is that nothing changes.

For information on Frank’s new book, including a free sampler and audio interviews along with ordering information, go to 48Laws.com.

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ATTENTION PASTORS AND CONFERENCE HOSTS: Frank is still taking invitations to speak in conferences and seminars for next year. If you are interested in inviting him to speak at your event, go to his Speaking page.

To see his …

entire book catalog (all 20 volumes)

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the deeper life network (Master Classes: Galatians in 3D, Ephesians in 3D, etc.)

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