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Frank Viola | Beyond Evangelical
Official Blog of Author & Speaker Frank Viola. Digging below the surface and moving beyond the shallows in today's Christianity.
Organic Church Life Doesn’t Work …
10 Straw-Man Myths About PAGAN CHRISTIANITY & REIMAGINING CHURCH
I have found out if we just let the Lord raise us up with His Word and by His Spirit you will have a more stronger faith and you will be willing to go through for the Lord, and you will not fear what man can do to you. When you are raised and made by the Lord you will know what it’s like to have a personal relationship with the Lord. I Love The Freedom!! I Love The Church Outside The Walls!!
When you say “work” or “worked”, What work outcome happens or is suppose to happen when the cross is embraced by those in a church community?
Will. The outcome is being “built together” as well as transformation. I expound on this a great deal using Scripture in Part 2 of “From Eternity to Here.” http://https://www.frankviola.org/frometernitytohere/
If Christ is crucified and you are in Christ’s body then you are crucified with Christ You cannot escape that logic. The reality in the body life is to lay down your life for the brethren in the Body of Christ, as Christ did for all of us in His Body. This is the sign He has given as the way to identify His disciples ( See John 13:34-35). That is the mark of the true body life and the true disciples of Christ.
My husband and I left the institutional church almost a year ago. We were totally involved in ministry there. After we left, we found an amazing freedom in Christ. We have also discovered that we have had to embrace the cross with all its pain. But in all of that, Christ is changing our lives. We are semi-retired and to come to this point in our lives is a major shift but we know that to be more like Him, we also have to die to self. Thankyou God for your revelation in our lives. Thankyou Frank for your honest and open reality.
God is doing a great work among His people!
The beauty of the cross is that it is followed by a resurrection. (Galatians 2:20) Organic church is filled with life … the life of Jesus. But, “unless a kernel of wheat falls into the ground and dies …” There is no organization, tradition, or event that will ever come close to comparing to the reality of Jesus. Jesus released in a community of His believers.
The cross is all we have. Without the cross we have not redemption, nor the way, the truth, nor the LIFE. The cross is why He came. It is the fullest expression of His love. Our journey in this life is but to the same place – the cross. As His children, we’re aliens and strangers of this world. The cross is the door to HIS world – eternal life in the heavenly of heavenlies. Embrace the cross, and enjoy its benefits.
Dying to self – taking up the cross – entering into the fellowship of His sufferings is not something you do, as in – one more diabolical performance based activity – it is , as is freedom, as is community, – a result – a consequence – dying to self and the way of the cross is what happens when you respond emmediately, without longwinded rationalization, to His gracious,loving,freedom giving promptings. I don’t plan my surrender – He does – Oh what freedom!
Alan, not sure what your “organic church experience” is (that phrase is used to describe the typical home group which is typically not organic at all) or how long you’ve been outside the organized church. But spend about a decade in true, authentic community where you’re just a brother among other brothers, and you will find the cross there in spades after the honeymoon period is over.
I’m seeing this truth play out where I am at right now! There are some that are not willing to ‘bend.’ This is difficult for those of us that do bend and difficult for those, (in my opinion) that do not. Thank you friend!
Frank,
Sadly “the cross” has been resticted to merely a salvation experience. The message of the cross is rarely taught in sanctification. Yet, it is THE key for spirtual growth and maturity. It becomes the “power of God” to those who are “being saved” 1.Cor1:18 We take part in a finished work that is finishing us. When we embrace the cross it embraces us back. It’s been my experience though that people will not be willing to “die” unless they believe that God raises the dead.
Halleluiah with exclamation on Selah, 39-yr’s later in passing / Seven months ago encountered from my past when being 18, a brother that was if not the first influential believers in my life. At one point In a dialog weighing his now new awakened doctrines, I depict on sanctification, questioned his powerful stance by asking if he takes up the cross (His) daily; his response was “no”! Then by such a roundabout manner while still keeping me captivated, I attempted to address the subject of the cross softly with no resolve. Our conversation left me in sorrow and little sleep for a few nights. Brother Franks simple yet more powerful in fathom (pathos) contemplation is real’ because to keep us all from err is the body so entering the resolving (resoling) “strait – gate” by keeping a humble inward sight central is the markings of what the cross had done, is doing thus will keeping performing in us tell the end. Mr. Violas cry’, if I am hearing correctly? Is to heed by embracing the Person Jesus Christ’ through one another’ allowing a work to be done wherein man receives no glory, ‘but G_d’ alone from here to eternity. Thanks again Mr. Viola for saying a pointed word that addresses a subject to wage a war against principalities & powers that work impart to keep the illusion alive, that one leads & others need follow.
Sharon, in my experience and observation, it’s only when people get involved in leadership or service in the institutional church that the cross comes into play. For the average institutional church attender, however, there’s really not much opportunity to bear the cross. For two hours on Sunday morning, Sunday night, and Wednesday night, you can be a perfect Christian. There’s hardly any “rubbing” together. People can check in, check out, without hardly any human interaction. It’s not quite “living a shared life.” That’s where the cross is found in spades.
The reason why the institutional church doesn’t “work” per se is a systemic problem more than anything. Barna and I take a stab at pointing out the specifics of that statement in “Pagan Christianity.”
Right on, Frank!
that’s true, I’ve realized that more and more since God has brought us on this journey of authentic body life. we definitely need an appreciation for the cross and for the death it brings to us. to quote watchman nee, “the blood delivers us from what we’ve done, and the cross delivers us from what we are.”
Unfortunately, too many believers do not understand what this entails – this “picking up your cross and following me”. It really means to completely, totally, let go of all your self ambitions and desires and let Father God fill you up with his (plan and purpose) – moment by moment. You can not move within God’s will if you are still holding onto something of yourself / something in the world. Christ is the Gate we enter upon acceptance of the work he completed on the cross for us. But that is merely the beginning. One must then seek Christ and follow him on that narrow pathway back to the heart of God – an ongoing, at times strife filled, lifelong experience. You must empty yourself of any personal agenda, become one in spirit with your fellow travelers and let the Lord lead and guide you in fulfilling the purpose of God: which is, the fulfillment of bringing all things together in Christ, in, by and for God, for God’s pleasure (Rev 4:11) and glory. It is not and never has been about us: it is and has infinitely been totally about Him. No matter what ministry we think we have or what talent we have – our primary ministry is to totally submit to Christ – together. Only then can God our Father use us to his greatest glory. If a hand full of us can do this, and if the pattern is repeated all over, we will see the rise of the kind of Ecclesia that existed in the first century. Overcoming all the distractions of life makes this a challenge for any and everyone who longs to submit their all to Christ (remember Paul who stated that he did not do as he should and did things he knew he should not). However, in viewing Paul’s life, we have hope in Christ in God that this can and will be accomplished!
Frank, I first heard you say that last June in Toronto. I think you repeated it at every session and expanded on it in one. Since that time, in our group, I can say from experience that that is absolutely true.. and wonderful. The sooner we all embrace the cross, better for the Lord to change us so that Christ is seen ( not our own selfish ideas, opinions, expectations ).. He is revealed in us as a local expression of His Body! Can’t happen without the cross!
Right on Frank. People are never a “cross” to bear, they only help lead us to His cross. It speaks of the two bars (one vertical, one horizontal) in which we experience the death life principle of the cross. We die and live Godward (vertically) and also through our dealings with others (horizontally). Another cool note is that the horizontal bar was placed on the back of Jesus by men. It’s the work of the cross that is initiated by people and used by God. Anyways- I’m out.
This is a great summary of organic church life, this is the attitude that as drawn me to this body. I thank you for the humble and honest input!
Frank,
I’m a bit wary of hearing “the cross” talked about as some sort of abstract concept. Shouldn’t we be preaching “Christ and HIM crucified” rather than some generic concept of “the cross” which must be embraced?
Caleb. The blog manager wanted me to pass on the following from her to you: “Please read the Moderating Comments link, be sure to view the point about the Spam folder, and don’t be so quick to judge and think the worst of others, especially those who you do not know personally.”
I rarely hear people preach on the experience of the cross today. And it’s certainly not mentioned in much of the so-called organic church “movement.” Yet it’s something that those who embark on the journey of organic church life should be reminded of because it’s one of the easiest things to lose sight of – especially for those of us who are on this path. I’ve affirmed for years that the church is built on the preaching of Jesus Christ in power and glory and Him crucified. But His crucifixion is experienced fully by His followers when they follow His words to take up “our cross” and follow Him. It is a mistake to separate our crucifixion with Christ and our “dying daily” as we experience what Paul called “the fellowship of His sufferings.” For those who have embraced it, there’s nothing abstract about the cross. It’s all too real. There’s much more on this subject in “Reimagining Church” and “From Eternity to Here” for those interested; no time for more here. Have a great weekend.
Frank, to your comment I would add Galatians 2:20– “I’ve been co-crucified with Christ…” You are completely correct. Yes, we preach Christ and him crucified–but that includes the call to embrace the cross–didn’t Jesus himself say something like “you cannot be my disciples unless you take up your cross and follow me”?
I cannot see how any one could deny the importance of teaching about the cross in the everyday life of the follower of Jesus.
Thanks for your blog! Blessings!