1. Angela says

    Would have liked to read this post. Seems it’s been removed and the only way to access is to buy an entire book series? :(

  2. MIke says

    I will just say this Brother Frank, please pray for our local assembly. And note that I said assembly and not church.

  3. joseph says

    Wow! I knew there were people like me. In regards to the church (which I refer to “the church system”. One thing I know the “body of Christ” will never come into its full Divine potential so as long as it is under the bondage of “the church system”. About 5yrs ago God gave me a dream, I saw a church building, as a matter of fact it was one of the local churches in my area, one that holds 1000+ member. This building was in ruins. They only part of the build standing upright was a corner piece. Meaning God is going to crumble what man has built.

  4. says



    Faith in what the Lord has done…absolutely.

    It is getting difficult to find churches where the sinner in the pew isn’t the subject (the focus) of the sermon.

    I thought this was about Him.

  5. Michael Aigboeghian says

    Thanks Frank. I’ve been following your posts close to a year now. I first came across your book Pagan Christianity and it dealt with some questions on my mind then concerning the institutional church. I got to know about organic church via your website and I’m still praying to God to bring me to one. I live in Nigeria and you are considered a rebel when you begin to ask questions about certain church practices. I’m still in the institutional church bcos I don’t want to leave and dry up
    I pray God grants me this organic church experience. God bless you Frank.

    • Gunner says

      Brother Michael,
      My heart was moved as I read your comments and prayer this week and wanted to encourage you that there is Life in the Person of Jesus Christ; outside of the traditional religious system. I can also testify that His grace will keep you from drying up spiritually as you continually draw from the Fountain of Living Water. I and others I know; were also once afraid to leave because of the fear that the sufficiency of Christ as the Source of Life might not extend beyond the institutional church with no visible signs of the Lord’s Church.
      That “organic church experience” your heart is longing for is available to us all if we will trust Him to lead us into it and take that step of faith. Our spiritual survival isn’t dependent on churchianity or an institution but on Christ. That is true and comes at a price for everyone of us… but it’s worth it! :)
      I am currently joined to another brother in Christ, who is from Africa and have asked him to contact you on his experience outside the religious system in finding more of with through the members of His Body.
      Praying for a greater revelation of Christ for us all. (Col. 1:9; Eph. 1:15-19)



  6. Kalil says

    Great post Frank, the way you articulated yourself here was on point. Really clear and concise. Thanks for sharing from a place of love.

  7. tracy says

    I agree totally Frank. However, how do I find like minded brothers and sisters in Christ who are seeking the same thing? I live in the south, been “out” of church for years- I feel I am a wanderer. There have been times I have desperately needed someone to pray for me, as I have struggled with some things ( I have relied totally on Christ to get me through) and there have been times I needed those relationships with others who are genuinely after Christ – that seek to edify the body and do His will. But I feel I am lost. I live in the bible belt USA of churches and your considered an outcast or doomed if your out of church( lol ) so any advice or words of wisdom?

  8. Matthew says

    I wonder if one sees more Christian community in cultures that are not western? I live in Europe and evangelical churches here are also very institutional. Thanks for the post Frank. Also … and this is a bit off topic … in what book do you discuss Israel, replacement theology, etc.?

  9. Brenda Corey says

    Thankful for this article. The journey continues, but onward we move and gather. So glad for your visits to Williamsburg VA some years back. Will the real church arise? She is coming forth!

  10. Jorge Gomez says

    Wow. I just wonder how much of this movement has spread in Latin America. I studied for the ministry in the US and now serve in Honduras. We might just be suffering from the same ailments as the church in the US where the influence of the personal “revelations”, “prosperity theologies” have taking over our pulpits in exchange for the Word of God. I see people in my own country disillusioned with church in general as I am. You have painted a picture that describes my situation. I like the summary form that I have read from your books. I really appreciate it.

    Could I have the liberty to translate this into Spanish?

    Thanks Frank. The Lord continue to bless you.

      • Fred says

        Thank you Frank for your convictions & the definition of “The Church” too! I met you in Clearwater Fl., and have used your books to help untold number of Christ followers of the teaching you present. I have paid a price, as it can be ” alone going” for a season, as the transitions & other believers get it in their spirit the truth of the institutional Christianity we were all a part of. Thank you again Frank. I long for these times of deeper fellowship & spirit taught biblical ministries among the Saints. Please pray for me as I do for you & support you also! Your brother, Fred M. Gordon. Alexandria, Va.

  11. Debra Westbrook says

    You nailed it with clarity. We are looking for community. Perhaps that’s it. We are looking……not finding. Trusting God to direct our steps and show us where to go. We have visited 15 churches in SoCal. It seems like there is a consistent template that varies in miniscule ways. We always leave sensing our hunger grows deeper and deeper for community. On top of that we have been overseas for the past 8 years so we feel out of sync with even being back in America. What to do? Your blog helps us realize that we are not alone. My passion is seeing our creative expression in Christ rise up, moving in a variety of ways. Let’s see where this journey takes us.

    • Sally says

      That’s where we are too, Debra. Wish we lived closer so we could connect. How to find others! That’s what I need to know. I keep thinking, Jesus is the Head, he will guide us in this. But so far, not.

  12. says

    Even as a pastor in a traditional setting, I see the value of your thoughts. We do have that innate desire to go deeper with Christ. That doesn’t happen without living in Christian community.

    • Robyn G says

      it’s so refreshing to see a pastor embrace these concepts…the concepts of what christian community was orignally and is still meant to be :)

  13. says

    Amen! This is a good summary post of so much of what you have said over the years, as well as describes many of your readers. I hope that this reaches many of our brothers and sisters that are still a part of the institutional church. Thanks Frank!

  14. Steve says

    This all sounds great, Frank, and I often find myself hungering for exactly the depth you are describing. But how do you find such expressions of the Body? Lacking buildings, you don’t spot ’em driving by. I doubt they advertise in the yellow pages. Got any advice?

  15. says

    Thank you brother Frank. I have written a book. Based on comments I am receiving from friends (who failed to comment on the manuscript I sent them earlier) I will be reconsidering all references to “the church” to try to avoid any misunderstanding. My references are not made in derogatory spirit, but this post not only confirms what I intend to look at, but gives valuable extra flavour.

    By the way, your The Eternal Purpose Of God was the first Frank Viola book I came across (in writing my Masters dissertation on the KIngdom of God as a visible phenomenon in 2005). That later led me to buy to Pagan Christianity and Reimagining Church.

    • Robyn G says

      I too try to be very careful when sharing my experience outside the walls…I never want to sway someone who isn’t yet being led by God…and I’m very senstive to never wanting to “persecute the church.” And as Frank shared, many Godly things are happening within the walls…in spite of the walls and the unnecessary activity and structure, just as they happen outside. I think the word “religion” has become a more favorable desciptor for me…and Jesus himself attacked “religion.” I don’t even go out of my way to share my journey unless someone’s conversation leads that direction…it is a very personal journey but one that I believe many many more are on the brink of…more than we realize…it’s the “elephant in the room” per se.

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